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Forum » General Talk » General Chat » Cossacks I tactics (especially against the AI). (Historical versus non-historical methods)
Cossacks I tactics (especially against the AI).
ab_99Date: Saturday, 26/January/2013, 3:54 PM | Message # 21
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Quote (Nowy)
Oh, sometimes it is not true. Aggressive wars were fought for profits, land, domination etc, but when somebody defended his country he somtimes fought for his live. That is much more than any profits
maybe I'm behind the times, but I think even the media war being waged for the benefits, which in the end becomes a material. :)
Quote (Nowy)
Yes of course, my propositions are more complex, but I think that few things are not so hard to change in the game e.g. units balance or organization.

in that case, it can be solved without changing the AI
 
NowyDate: Saturday, 26/January/2013, 4:40 PM | Message # 22
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Quote (ab 99)
maybe I'm behind the times, but I think even the media war being waged for the benefits, which in the end becomes a material. :)


Hmm, when you get some historical knowlegde, you also got some kind of profit, but sometimes your knowledge do not become material. smile

Quote (ab 99)
Quote (Nowy)
Yes of course, my propositions are more complex, but I think that few things are not so hard to change in the game e.g. units balance or organization.


in that case, it can be solved without changing the AI

Yes, but AI also should include these new units balance and organization in normal gameplay.
This mean that there are needed some changings in AI tactics.

In other hand AI still would do someting stupid e.g. send mortars in front of own crowded formations. sad

AI should know how to use these new balanced units and what formations are predestined for what tactical cases.

C2 AI get some these abilities e.g. AI knows what for and when are needed infantry squares and that flank and rear attacks are more effective etc.


Message edited by Nowy - Saturday, 26/January/2013, 4:44 PM
 
MrRivDate: Sunday, 27/January/2013, 11:54 PM | Message # 23
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Quote (Nowy)
In other hand AI still would do someting stupid e.g. send mortars in front of own crowded formations.
That'd be fun to implement.  :P

Quote (Nowy)
C2 AI get some these abilities e.g. AI knows what for and when are needed infantry squares and that flank and rear attacks are more effective etc.
And this is simple to do.  You know how when you're attacked, you get a little message and a box highlights the area where you are attacked?  It would be possible to catch this "broadcast" of code and write a bit of code where, if the AI sees this "broadcast", they react in this way.  

It would be a bit more difficult to have the AI form square against cavalry, but it wouldn't be to hard to make it form square against attackers, if you know what I mean.


I speak English. Je parle francais. Mowim po polsku. Говорю на русском. Ich spreche Deutsch.

Historian and C/C++/C#, Java, Python, Basic, HTML, XML programmer.
 
NowyDate: Monday, 28/January/2013, 10:37 AM | Message # 24
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Quote (MrRiv)
Quote (Nowy)
In other hand AI still would do someting stupid e.g. send mortars in front of own crowded formations.


That'd be fun to implement.  :P

I'm sorry this case already exist in the game.
I saw AI's mortas send in front of own formations many times.
These mortars provoke enemy artillery fire. That is clearly stupid case.

Quote (MrRiv)
Quote (Nowy)
C2 AI get some these abilities e.g. AI knows what for and when are needed infantry squares and that flank and rear attacks are more effective etc.


And this is simple to do.  You know how when you're attacked, you get a little message and a box highlights the area where you are attacked?  It would be possible to catch this "broadcast" of code and write a bit of code where, if the AI sees this "broadcast", they react in this way.

It would be a bit more difficult to have the AI form square against cavalry, but it wouldn't be to hard to make it form square against attackers, if you know what I mean.

AI in C2 can form infantry squares against cavalry, even enemy cavalry do not attack.
AI can form squares when their infantry can see enemy cavalry and that case is historically correct.

Infantry can predicted possible cavalry attacks therefore they would be ready to defend themselves and formed squares before cavalry attacks.
Form squares during cavalry charge could be too late. Infantry would be easily destroyed when they did not change formation on time.
This case is quite good prepared in C2.

But in C1 I never saw AI which formed infantry holow squares against enemy cavalry. sad


Message edited by Nowy - Monday, 28/January/2013, 10:40 AM
 
ab_99Date: Monday, 28/January/2013, 2:57 PM | Message # 25
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Quote (MrRiv)
And this is simple to do.  You know how when you're attacked, you get a little message and a box highlights the area where you are attacked?  It would be possible to catch this "broadcast" of code and write a bit of code where, if the AI sees this "broadcast", they react in this way.   It would be a bit more difficult to have the AI form square against cavalry, but it wouldn't be to hard to make it form square against attackers, if you know what I mean.

C2 algorithm in units described in the file \ AI \ BrigadeAI \ Rules.

kazaki1 engine does not give enough information for the recurrence of such an algorithm. Information will have to get by indirect means.
 
MrRivDate: Thursday, 31/January/2013, 4:39 AM | Message # 26
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Hmm.  What do both of you have in mind?  I wish that Cossacks 1 had better algorithms for analyzing such surroundings.

I speak English. Je parle francais. Mowim po polsku. Говорю на русском. Ich spreche Deutsch.

Historian and C/C++/C#, Java, Python, Basic, HTML, XML programmer.
 
NowyDate: Thursday, 31/January/2013, 12:00 PM | Message # 27
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Your proposition cast in message #23 as improvements in C1 AI was little bit strange.

I generally stated that C2 have better AI than C1. Even put these simple examples with infantry squares or mortars.

In C2 AI can better operate with historical tactics while in C1 AI do not recognize many historically important tactics.
These mean AI in C2 > AI in C1. However both games have many things worthy to improvements.

When you wish improve C1 AI tacics you could take a look at these aspects in C2.
Maybe you can implement somethings from C2 to C1 AI tactics.

However ab 99 sugested that

Quote (ab 99)
kazaki1 engine does not give enough information for the recurrence of such an algorithm. Information will have to get by indirect means.

I am afraid that he is right.
 
ab_99Date: Thursday, 31/January/2013, 4:16 PM | Message # 28
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Quote (MrRiv)
Hmm.  What do both of you have in mind?

- I believe that you can find a creative solution to AI
- I have no interest in AI BTW,
I do not play this game, for me it's gymnastic exercises for the mind. smile

Quote (MrRiv)
I wish that Cossacks 1 had better algorithms for analyzing such surroundings.

AI Cossacks2 makes too many dance moves, wink enough to analyze Force.
You already know what's inside AI K2. BTW enough features,
to use curiosity. smile

If I was a programmer, i would do the following:

1. created a file nation.dll.cfg, format:

[MEMBER]NameUnit () ForceCold ForceFire costs(BUILDSTAGES/PRICE)
...

[ENABLED]
[UPGRADE]NameUpgrade_1 ()
...
NameUpgrade_XX ()

[UPGRADELINKS]sequence of upgrades

[End of cfg]

2. InitAI ()
get your nation
Download nation.dll.cfg
get the rest of the nation
download *. cfg
All data written to the array
give a name to your bot
registration units and upgrades for *. cfg

3.ProcessAI ()
Init()
analysis of names, If a player does not have a name, then he is a man
determine diplomatic relations
determine the level of players
if the ratio of forces is against my bot 7:1, the message of dishonesty
and set the difficulty level to maximum, the game too unfair
flags set game options: guns, towers ... etc
Script()

ProcessEconomica ()
resource production
market
upgrades
production buildings
units produce

ProcessDiplomacy ()
determine the strength of the Allies
economic aid
military aid
allocate resources to the production of effective economic development

ProcessArmy ()
create of army
get the coordinates of the Army band
determine the strength of the army (as *. cfg)
determine the strength of the enemy in the surrounding areas by a 3x3 matrix
x x x
x o x
x x x
determine the distance to the enemy,
to deploy troops in the right direction,
define a weak zone, a strong area
choose to attack by fire or steel
if we have a gun, shooting the most dangerous area
if the enemy has a gun, sending suicide bombers to neutralize
if the enemy horses, the square
If our strength> of the enemy, then attack,
otherwise the defense / retreat, request reinforcements
if the enemy is man, we need a reserve and sending raiding parties in different directions

Etc, etc ...

*** This is a draft, it does not take into account all the nuances of the game, but I'm sure you can write better.
** Google sorry for the quality of the translation tongue
 
NowyDate: Friday, 29/March/2013, 1:45 PM | Message # 29
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I can not see any progress here.
That was interesting to knew that somebody thought about historically accurate tactics in C1.
 
What a piity that it looks that this subject run aground.
 
Forum » General Talk » General Chat » Cossacks I tactics (especially against the AI). (Historical versus non-historical methods)
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