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Comparing engines
CichorDate: Friday, 24/September/2010, 9:33 PM | Message # 31
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Quote (|hwk|poppen)
well in my opinion, there is no way we can be historically accurate because no one who made the game was there, none of the modelers, programmers, etc, weren't there during the battles, they made a great engine that we all love to play based on what is written, archived, and painted, and it has a few flaws, EVERYTHING has flaws

Others wise words.

Quote (Nowy)
Think that could be somebody which lost few times in raw because of it, AND then she or her will NOT stop using stacking. This way I could say that your pervious implication is not true. And you are not resolve this stacking problem that way.

If player is smart to notice "why I loose again?", then he or she will try to find better tactics. For me it is obvious but i know that not everyone love thinking about tactics and strategy wink

Quote (Nowy)
Quote ("Cichor")
I wrote it finally resolve problem? I wrote that it is temporarily resolve problem until someone find it.

Bla, bla, bla I quoted you precisely and then put my opinion. Of course you can disagree with me, but it does not change this fact - stacking formations exist in these games.

I not refuse stacking exist or my proposition will stop it. I give you something like prevention actions, ok? That is all.
Why am I so stubborn? Because I well know that I can write again and again that stacking is bad but I don't know very well games engines to find the best resolve. From my point my temporarily solution is better than do nothing.


I apologize for my english.



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NowyDate: Saturday, 25/September/2010, 2:40 PM | Message # 32
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Quote ("Cichor")
If player is smart to notice "why I loose again?", then he or she will try to find better tactics. For me it is obvious but i know that not everyone love thinking about tactics and strategy

You jump to the conclusion in that case, because you suggested that people do not think, and that these which use stacking formations loose the game.

It is FALSE conclusion. I am afraid stacking formation "ARE VERY EFFICIENT" to win the game in C2. However it looks idiotic and totally unrealistic.

All we can see again and again stacking formations, specially cavalry formations which usually help win the game. These crowded stacking cavalry formations kill everything on their way to enemy base. Artillery don't stop them. What is more, sometimes you even can not use artillery guns because you have not enough time to use them.

I could say that stacking formations ARE current, widesprid tactic in multiplayer and this is very bad. Therefore I and many other players do not like multiplayer games. Who knows maybe this is why C2 was less popular in multiplayer than C1.

Quote ("Cichor")
I not refuse stacking exist or my proposition will stop it. I give you something like prevention actions, ok? That is all.
Why am I so stubborn? Because I well know that I can write again and again that stacking is bad but I don't know very well games engines to find the best resolve. From my point my temporarily solution is better than do nothing.

I'm sorry, but you proposition to stop or prevent stacking formations with artillery clearly failed.

Nevertheles I see that we AGREE that stacking formations are bad. Think it needs programming solutions in the end.

Message edited by Nowy - Saturday, 25/September/2010, 2:41 PM
 
CichorDate: Saturday, 25/September/2010, 3:40 PM | Message # 33
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Quote (Nowy)
It is FALSE conclusion. I am afraid stacking formation "ARE VERY EFFICIENT" to win the game in C2.

But thread is not only about C2 but AC series too :P

Quote (Nowy)
All we can see again and again stacking formations, specially cavalry formations which usually help win the game. These crowded stacking cavalry formations kill everything on their way to enemy base. Artillery don't stop them. What is more, sometimes you even can not use artillery guns because you have not enough time to use them.

Now I full understand you...

Quote (Nowy)
I'm sorry, but you proposition to stop or prevent stacking formations with artillery clearly failed.

Suma summarum, you have right in C2 my proposition is not good idea. In C1 or AC where artillery is numerous (than C2) it is chance to do that.


I apologize for my english.



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NowyDate: Saturday, 25/September/2010, 6:03 PM | Message # 34
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Quote ("Cichor")
Suma summarum, you have right in C2 my proposition is not good idea.

I'm glad that you understand and agree with me.

Quote ("Cichor")
In C1 or AC where artillery is numerous (than C2) it is chance to do that.

I am not well versed in C1 and AC case, however I can put few remarks there.

If I remember well in AC artillery guns are not numerous because theses guns are relatively expensive and their costs grow with every created piece.
Therefore numerous artillery in AC could be not effective tactic I suppouse.

In C1 case, player can use numerous artillery guns, but who use stacking formations there. In this game common tactics are based on speed growing economy and attacks with masses units, many times even without formations.

Nevertheless artillery guns can kill crowded masses in C1 and AC, but it is also not realistic.

Artillery guns in C2 are much better showed, however are not numerouse.

In another thread I suggested that this game needs more artillery guns and many, many other things.

 
OC_DavoutDate: Monday, 27/September/2010, 1:29 AM | Message # 35
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If I might be so bold, as the starter of this thread I can assure that the thread is NOT about whether stacking is good or bad, but how the engines compare. Yes I asked about how AC compares with C2 regarding stacking, but that was basically about how the engines compared with regards stacking.

Personally I do not like the appearance of stacking and would like to reduce its effectiveness. That is my personal oppinion. In the C2 engiune stacking is the most successful method of winning the game and yes I will use it, but only because it is virtually necessary.

I suspect that Cavalry is produced too fast and/or is too overpowered/cheap in C2. C2 also has a very nice ability to keep formations geometrically perfect. Both foot and cavalry move very fast. I suspect that these things all contribute to the game being very much a STACKFEST.

As I asked originally is anyone able to confirm whether stacking units in AC/DN makes them more effective? Or is this more of a thing relating to C2?

On another topic, does anybody know if it is possible to make it so that troops will not fire through friendly troops? I have been looking at this recently. Not worked out if it is possible yet.

 
[hwk]poppenDate: Monday, 27/September/2010, 1:49 AM | Message # 36
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Quote
On another topic, does anybody know if it is possible to make it so that troops will not fire through friendly troops? I have been looking at this recently. Not worked out if it is possible yet.
i believe the line FRIENDLYFIRE in the MD will do it






Non progredi est regredi
 
DaddioDate: Wednesday, 29/September/2010, 0:32 AM | Message # 37
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I knew it would be a touchy subject. So I dident respond to the further posts.

To answer your question though, You need to take more care when stacking in AC, as it needs to a perfect match in formations.

Because of this it is less effective.

If one formation is a little ahead of the other it will not fire, or if it is forced it will kill friendly troops.

I strongly suspect that this is also possible in C2, since this friendly fire scenario is also in place for artillery, and just needs to be found and activated.

Daddio


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OC_DavoutDate: Thursday, 30/September/2010, 9:01 PM | Message # 38
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I can make it so that friendly troops suffer casualties, that is not the problem.

The problem is I want troops to not fire(consistently) if there are friendly troops in the way. Or at least that would be the ideal (for me).

 
CichorDate: Thursday, 30/September/2010, 11:57 PM | Message # 39
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Hmm.. you can change orders to not fire if allies are in the way (In AC or Imperia - mod to C1). It is only one click... Or I misunderstood you ;/.

I apologize for my english.



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[hwk]poppenDate: Friday, 01/October/2010, 2:05 AM | Message # 40
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well i remember that friendlyfire eather in the md or not was how to do it. i had that problem in my mod nere the beginning





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