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Forum » Cossacks I » GamePlay » Trick at market?
Trick at market?
willDate: Monday, 26/April/2010, 11:01 PM | Message # 1
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I saw a lot of people doing the same at academy building. They buy the research for stone but only the 300 per cent. The ppl dont buy research of 100 per cent. Why people do this. You need to choose between 100 per cent or 300 per cent? Is not possible to buy both and add one to another?
 
DaddioDate: Monday, 26/April/2010, 11:22 PM | Message # 2
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NO,

If you buy the 300, then buy the 100, it go's back to 100 for some reason. They do not add to each other.

I have seen people who buy the 100 early to get a boost early in the game.

But never buy the 300, then buy the 100.

Daddio


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CichorDate: Monday, 26/April/2010, 11:23 PM | Message # 3
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That improvements mining claim by 200% and 400% :P

Quote (Daddio)
If you buy the 300, then buy the 100, it go's back to 100 for some reason. They do not add to each other.

What about food?


I apologize for my english.



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EbelAngelDate: Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 2:32 AM | Message # 4
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biggrin

I remember having epic discussions about this topic because I didn't use to believe what people told me, simply because it didn't make sense from a mathematical point of view.

I had to learn this the hard way, and since I ventured in to the dark world of modding, I also understand why this is as it is.

See, between what is written in the description of an upgrade and what actually happens on pressing that upgrade, there is a world of difference. I can make the description of those upgrades read as : "your peasants will now harvest banana's", if you press that upgrade button, it will still have an effect on your stone collection, no matter what the description says.

Now, let's have a look at the technical explanation why these upgrades are not cumulative , as you would expect from a % increase.

These are the actual upgrade lines from the nation files:

AKA23SP A23 #POSITION 7 1 #LEVEL 1 AKA23AU #COST 2 GOLD 1550 IRON 3000 #TIME 500
EFFECT_STONE 200
AKA24SP A24 #POSITION 7 2 #LEVEL 1 AKA24AU #COST 3 FOOD 4200 GOLD 1550 COAL 12520 #TIME 500
EFFECT_STONE 400

Notice how it says, effect stone 200 and 400, not 200%, not + 200, but plain 200. This sets the rate of collection at this level in a given time frame.
Researching first the 400 and then the 200, well, it's clear, is actually decreasing the rate of collection.

So whatever has been written in the description is just plain wrong. It's not 100%, it's not 200%, it's not 300%, its not 400%, it's all just wrong. Simple as that.

Quote (Cichor)
What about food?

Ha, that, is different, read with me:

Academy:
AKA01SP A1 #POSITION 0 0 #LEVEL 1 AKA01AU #COST 2 GOLD 322 WOOD 200 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +4
AKA02SP A2 #POSITION 0 1 #LEVEL 1 AKA02AU #COST 2 GOLD 1522 WOOD 12400 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +4
AKA03SP A3 #POSITION 0 2 #LEVEL 1 AKA03AU #COST 2 GOLD 1330 WOOD 32400 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +5
AKA04SP A4 #POSITION 1 0 #LEVEL 1 AKA04AU #COST 2 GOLD 522 WOOD 1400 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +2000

Blacksmith:

KUZ01SP K1 #POSITION 0 0 #LEVEL 1 KUZ01AU #COST 2 GOLD 100 WOOD 400 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +1000

Mill:

Melnica(sp)GETRES M1 #POSITION 2 2 #LEVEL 1 Melnica(au)GETRES #COST 2 FOOD 750 GOLD 250 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +14
Melnica(sp)GETRES2 M2 #POSITION 2 2 #LEVEL 2 Melnica(au)GETRES2 #COST 3 FOOD 40600 GOLD 3350 IRON 2900 #TIME 500
EFFECT_FOOD +25

See how here there is a + in front of the parameter? That should explain why the above logic doesn't apply for the food upgrades. The food upgrades are cumulative.

Morale: the descriptions are highly deceptive and written by someone who had no clue about what was programmed, including the stuff written down on the site here about resources, which I urgently need to update correctly.

There , clear? wacko

I hope you all noticed that researching the second and third academy upgrade for food are a pure waste of money as they are costing lots of wood and yield little result compared to the 4th academy upgrade and the blacksmith upgrade for food.

EDIT:: and why on earth is this thread labeled "trick at market" while its about stone upgrades? wink




Message edited by EbelAngel - Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 2:48 AM
 
willDate: Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 1:28 PM | Message # 5
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So that we must only do the expensive stone research? The FOOD 4200 GOLD 1550 COAL 12520 cost?
Better not to do the first upgrade, the cheaper?

And another question EbelAngel, where can i find this lines:

AKA23SP A23 #POSITION 7 1 #LEVEL 1 AKA23AU #COST 2 GOLD 1550 IRON 3000 #TIME 500
EFFECT_STONE 200
AKA24SP A24 #POSITION 7 2 #LEVEL 1 AKA24AU #COST 3 FOOD 4200 GOLD 1550 COAL 12520 #TIME 500
EFFECT_STONE 400

Message edited by will - Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 1:28 PM
 
EbelAngelDate: Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 1:50 PM | Message # 6
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Quote (will)
So that we must only do the expensive stone research? The FOOD 4200 GOLD 1550 COAL 12520 cost?
Better not to do the first upgrade, the cheaper?

That depends on the start options such as peace time, starting resources, size of map, landscape type, amount of players,...There is no uniform strategy, one option different can change the gameplay/strategy entirely.

But if I had to suggest what you should do, then I'd say, if you think its gonna be a short game, you could just research the small stone upgrade ( or the wood ), if you forsee a longer game ( with peace time) it is better to do the big stone upgrade.

Those lines about the upgrades you can find in the Nation.NDS file's which are stored inside the ALL.GSC file and this can be opened with the GSC Utility.


 
DaddioDate: Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 6:04 PM | Message # 7
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The same is true with the powder upgrades.

you get different results by using different orders of upgrades.

I have forgotten the correct order, but once a upgrade is chosen, it will always round up.

it is possible to get an extra 2 - 4% I think. Going from memory here.

Daddio

Did you have a question about the market?


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CichorDate: Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 6:39 PM | Message # 8
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Quote (Daddio)
The same is true with the powder upgrades.

you get different results by using different orders of upgrades.

I have forgotten the correct order, but once a upgrade is chosen, it will always round up.

it is possible to get an extra 2 - 4% I think. Going from memory here.

http://kozacy.in4.pl/informacje/shot.htm
biggrin

Quote (EbelAngel)
AKA23SP A23 #POSITION 7 1 #LEVEL 1 AKA23AU #COST 2 GOLD 1550 IRON 3000 #TIME 500
EFFECT_STONE 200
AKA24SP A24 #POSITION 7 2 #LEVEL 1 AKA24AU #COST 3 FOOD 4200 GOLD 1550 COAL 12520 #TIME 500
EFFECT_STONE 400

Hmm, maybe it is time to do little patch and add in all *.NDS files "+" or "%"?

17c HH doesn't have problem like this ;] In Academy is only upgrade for EFFECT_STONE 200 and thats all.


I apologize for my english.



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EbelAngelDate: Tuesday, 27/April/2010, 7:27 PM | Message # 9
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Quote (Daddio)
The same is true with the powder upgrades.

you get different results by using different orders of upgrades.

I have forgotten the correct order, but once a upgrade is chosen, it will always round up.

Detailed research and all possible combinations are listed here: http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/index/0-101

Quote (Cichor)
http://kozacy.in4.pl/informacje/shot.htm
biggrin

Visually very nice presented, though slightly oversimplified and it misses a couple of units I noticed when I just breezed over it.

Quote (Cichor)
Hmm, maybe it is time to do little patch and add in all *.NDS files "+" or "%"?

I don't agree for a couple of reasons. The problem is not with the upgrades, but in the description of the upgrades. Aswell, releasing an "unofficial" patch never makes it to the broader public. The only way to do it, is to create a new version number, but that would split up the remaining players even further.


 
warlordDate: Tuesday, 08/June/2010, 2:02 AM | Message # 10
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biggrin a very interesting read! I've always done the 1st stone upgrade then the 2nd one. So just do the second stone upgrade yes?
 
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