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Forum » Cossacks I » GamePlay » Game Speed (The vagueries of setting game speed.)
Game Speed
FtoomshDate: Saturday, 27/July/2013, 12:58 PM | Message # 1
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Ever since the advent of XP, Win 7 and 64 bit PCs, Cossacks game speed has been weird to set to say the least. I run Windows 7 and Cossacks in XP emulation mode. Furthermore I run a batch file to shut down Explorer before dmcr.exe is started. I do this last process to stop the neon or day-glo (bright, garish coloured) pixels problem.

Setting the speed in single player mode holds no guarantee that the the game will run at the same speed in the GSC shell in a multiplayer game. For example, I played in fast mode but have the slider set to about 3/4. This givse a sensible speed in single player but then it actually runs too fast in the GSC shell in a 1v1 game. If I slide it to 1/2 in single player fast mode then it runs real slow in single but still seems too fast in GSC 1v1 multiplayer. Of course, it also depends on the other player and his or her connection and PC.

I wonder if there is any known way of getting a good consistent speed? It's hard to quantify it but there is a speed that looks natural; not scurrying and not in slow motion. It is almost impossible to experiment in a test game on GSC shell because it locks the menu after 1 pause to look at the menu. Is there some option I am not seeing, not using?

UPDATE

Actually I can add more to this story. Phil (OC_Clausewitz) and I are now having real speed problems. The game is running too fast in the GSC Shell. Previously, the game was a little bit fast but we were used to it. Then when Bill (Daddio) started playing, it was too fast him as he was out of practice. Now, something strange has happened. The internet connection between Brisbane (me) and Phil (Clausewitz) has sped up. This is almost unheard of in Australia! An internet connection actually getting better! Usually, our connections just get worse and worse. Anyway, now it makes our game run too fast. It seems the only thing really governing our game speed was the old slow internet connection.

Now I find that changing speeds via slow mode or fast mode and the speed slider affects the game in single player only. The speed settings do not affect the speed in the GSC Shell. No matter what speed I set the game runs too fast in the Shell. If I set slow mode before a game it loses that mode and resets to fast mode when we start a game. Help! How can I govern speed in GSC Shell games?

Traditional Napoleonic marching pace was about 90 steps a minute. 120 steps a minute was double-time. If the game could be set to create two steps a second (double-time) this would be fine. It might even look slow to someone used to a faster pace. But I think it would be a playable pace. Question is, Is there any way of setting speed that works in the GSC Shell? I can't find a way.


Message edited by Ftoomsh - Sunday, 28/July/2013, 1:44 AM
 
EbelAngelDate: Monday, 29/July/2013, 10:54 AM | Message # 2
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When starting a multiplayer game it seems to revert to max speed settings. I assume that was done so when 10 years ago pc's and internet speed were much slower to assure maximum speed on starting a game.

On the gamespy shell i see more and more games with titles like 'slow'. I played one or 2 so far, they are way too slow for me , but it shows you'r not the only one having issues with fast speed. It could be worth scouting around on the other forums, particulary the russian one's , see how they look up on the issue. I know there are little tools out there to slow down the cpu and so on, but i dont really like them, most are hit and miss.

Try here first maybe http://forum.newlcn.com/ . Most of it is in russian, but you can select the language on the top right. Its by far the most active cossacks forum im aware off. They dont mod though , just play.

Meanwhile i'll see if i can find more information about it.

Also you are absolutely sure you cant change the game speed in the gameshell after having started the game by adjusting the sliders and the slow/fast option?
Wasnt there a hotkey for gamespeed aswell? Like control + D or alt +D or maybe it was ctrl+alt+D ?


 
FtoomshDate: Monday, 29/July/2013, 1:51 PM | Message # 3
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Quote (EbelAngel)
Also you are absolutely sure you cant change the game speed in the gameshell after having started the game by adjusting the sliders and the slow/fast option?Wasnt there a hotkey for gamespeed aswell? Like control + D or alt +D or maybe it was ctrl+alt+D ?

It turns out you are correct there. Yes, the game seems to automatically set itself to fast in the GSC shell. But if you reset speed after game start then it slows down. Daddio did that in our game today without seeming to go to the menu. So he must have used a hotkey. I will ask him what hotkey he used.

Daddio set our game to a speed that seemed very slow to me. It looked like slow motion compared to what I am used to. However, when I counted step rates I had to admit it was technically realistic. Marching pace is about 90 steps a minute. Double-time march is about 120 steps a minute. The units seemed to be technically marching double-time but it seemed very slow to me. Daddio and I will have to come to a compromise when it comes to speed, at least after he has become more familiar with OC Mod Balanced.

Unfortunately, when we played I ran out of time. I had to go out. I want to give daddio a few 45 minute peace time games so he has time to build a full economy and full army. At the moment I have 1000s of games experience in OC Mod (standard and balanced) so a rusty player or new player has a bit of a learning curve.

I just hope I can talk Daddio into speeding it up a little. smile

Attached is a short guide to the best all round starting build for OC Mod Balanced.
Attachments: Quick_Guide_to_.docx(25Kb)
 
EbelAngelDate: Monday, 29/July/2013, 2:54 PM | Message # 4
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Send me an autorecord(s) of your games pls.

 
FtoomshDate: Tuesday, 30/July/2013, 4:21 AM | Message # 5
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Quote (EbelAngel)
Send me an autorecord(s) of your games pls.

I will certainly do that but first I must outline some issues. These issues are simple bugs which need to be avoided to get recorded games to play successfully. Well, you knew you wouldn't get a short answer from me, didn't you? wink

Bug 1. Because OC Mod implements a new extra nation it has an issue when attempting to replay random nation games from the GSC Shell game record. Basically, you can't replay these games. You can replay games from the GSC Shell where nations are selected.

The fix for bug 1 is to record your own games in your own game folder and replay those. And, of course, I can send you records of my games.

Bug 2. Because we play games with capture peasants set to off or no, the replayer sometimes bugs out and peasants are captured in the replay causing a de-synch.

There is a fix for Bug 2. It involves re-setting the no capture "flag" in the program. First, before attempting the replay follow this process. Set the peasant captures to on. Start a game against the computer and build a TC and a mill. Select surrender. Now set the peasant captures to no peasant captures. Start a game against the computer and build a TC and a mill. Select surrender. Now, without leaving the program, select replays and the replay you want to watch. It will now play without the capture bug and desynch. You can now watch as many replays as you have. But every time you exit the program and restart it later you need to follow this procedure to be certain. Otherwise, it is a matter of chance whether you get the capture desynch bug or not.

Issue 3. This is not really a bug. It's just that only games played since the last balancing patch will replay without a desynch, obviously. I will hold the version stable for a little while now so I get a library of replayable games.

Quick question, do you want to just see our last game which shows our build orders and is a very short game? I had to rush a 0 PT game and then go out. Or do you want to some big, hard fought games too like Phil (Clausewitz) and I have sometimes becuase we are both used to the game? Anyway, the last game Bill (Daddio) and I had is in the GSC Shell and we selected nations so it is playable. Just make sure you go through the process to stop the peasant capture desynch bug. I hope that procedure works for the Shell. It certainly works for files in the replay folder. Just in case, here is the file below. Dont forget to make sure you have the latest mods files in you OC Mod from my zip on skydrive and the mods01 and mods02 files there.
Attachments: RN1_F42F_0_0000.rec(121Kb)


Message edited by Ftoomsh - Tuesday, 30/July/2013, 4:29 AM
 
EbelAngelDate: Thursday, 01/August/2013, 8:27 PM | Message # 6
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Quote (Ftoomsh)
Or do you want to some big, hard fought games too like Phil (Clausewitz


This please.


 
FtoomshDate: Friday, 02/August/2013, 2:18 AM | Message # 7
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OK, what I will have to do is hold the version constant for a few weeks at least. That way I can build up a little library of games. Ideally I would want you to see a "miniature"; that is a quick game decided in early 17th C. Then a late 17th C victory. Then an early 18th victory. And finally, a massive long 18th C game with full sized armies. This would give you a more sweeping idea of all game play. I would also want these games to show good play by both sides. It is not very enlightening to see a game where one person makes a bunch of terrible mistakes (that's usually me) and the other person wins too easily.
 
FtoomshDate: Saturday, 03/August/2013, 11:19 PM | Message # 8
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EXPLANATORY POSTSCRIPT

I will post some example games below but I have not yet got good new examples of very long 18th C games because the last version change was too recent. Before viewing the games I feel you need to undertand what this Balanced Mod is attempting. It is attempting to make every nation playable and with winning chances at some stages depending on mines, terrain, player decisions and luck in the fog of war. All the nations in 1.35 Baddog and OC Mod are somewhat different as we know. This introduces tactical and strategic asymmetry. They are weaker or stronger at different tactics and strategies and they are weaker or stronger at different phases of the game.

The concept of "phase strength" is quite important to how I attempt to balance the game. I identify 5 military phases. These phases are;

1. Early infantry operations
2. 17th C combined arms operations
3. Transitional stages (transitioning to fully stone-walled bases and/or to early 18th C production)
4. Early 18th C operations with a mixture of 17th C and 18th C armies without full 18th C artillery support
5. Late 18th C operations of near pure 18th C formations with full 18th C artillery support.

For each nation you could draw bar graphs of their strength at each of the 5 phases. I would call these phase strength profiles.

For example, Hungary is a standard European nation except that it can make skirmishers was well as Grenadiers in the 18th C. These skirmishers make it very strong in the late 18th C. Before that its strength is standard for an 18th C capable nation. Thus its strength numbers for the 5 phases can be estimated as 3, 3, 3, 4, 5. It is moderately strong until 18th C and then becomes stronger and then elite.

On the other hand, Ukraine has a touch of weakness early due to only having shooters to face pikes. It is not until Ukraine gets some light horse that it can defend its early shooters properly. So Ukraine has a window of weakness early on where a pike side can attempt to set it back. This window of weakness quickly passes and then Ukraine gets stronger faster than the standard European nations do. Ukraine's phase profile can be estimated as 2, 3, 4, 4, 3.

The spreadsheet attached gives this example in graph form.

What this means, if I was Ukraine playing Hungary I would seek to build and defend and survive any early pike push from Hungary. Then when I reached my best strenght windows (phases 2, 3 and 4) I would be seeking to operations and the attack to the enemy. Hungary on the other hand would attempt to set me back early and then hunker down with fences and then walls trying to survive until its 18th C power matured. This might sound simple in theory for both sides. In practice it is very tricky.

Now look at the game C515 where England take on Ukraine. The positions are close and England has a profile a little different from Hungary again, in that England is strong early goes a bit soft middle and then gets strong late like Hungary. So England is more like 4 ,3, 3, 4, 5. This situation really favours England as the starting positions are a bit too close for Ukraine's comfort. Even so it is a close run thing and Ukraine is unlucky in picking just the wrong moment to venture forward with part not all of his army.

Then look at the game CCD2. Here Netherlands which has very strong armoured pikes humiliates the Swiss with pikes only at long range right across the long diagonal. this is usually hard to do. The Swiss player (me) really should have done better than this but I make a bunch of mistakes. The game is still worth watching because Clausewitz's play is very technically accurate. He dispatches the right number of attacking formations of the right size. He gets his economy going well. He gets fences at the right time and stables at the right time. While doing all this he gets enough pike upgrades to capitalise on his nation's pike strength advantage. Ftoomsh (me) is too late getting his acadamy, too late in dispatching attackers, makes the mistake of creating formations of 72 (too large and leave too many holes in my position) and then gets bypassed by the attackers and has to run back trying to stop. Under all this pressure I forget my final halbardiers upgrades and this is the last nail in the coffin. The jury is still out on whether halbardiers were the right choice in that game.

Now these are both short games decided in the early 17th C. When I get good examples of longer games I will post them.

I suppose I could post this one (DEBB) which is a fairly simplistic game in that with France vs Poland and lakes to help defence (we use no navies), I just stonewall up and perform an 18th C swindle. This means not making a good 17th army and just racing for an 18th army behind multiple walls. By the time Poland breaks in France has a great 18th C army advantage and Poland's large 17th C army just melts away. Phil has often performed this swindle on me. It was good to get one back. smile

Having said that, the position probably favoured France unless Poland got super aggressive, super early. That was really Poland's best chance. But it's not always easy to see your best chance early in the game with the fog of war playing such a large role in matters.

Added (03/August/2013, 11:19 PM)
---------------------------------------------
At last, Ebel_Angel I can post the long 17th C to 18th C OC Mod Balanced game that has everything. (But please see the shorter games we played too for other game possibilities). Added :  The long game is 9BEB but my first attempt to post it has not worked. It's not there. I don't think I can add it till you add another comment and force me to a new message. Unless I can find a way to make this work.

This long game has everything. The game speed was running very fast so the standard of play was very good I think given the speed we had to contend with. Clausewitz opens with a surprise defensive strategy that was really quite unexpected. This is using no infantry pikes at all but muskets right from the start. I would have sworn that this was unsound but against the swordsmen I chose and a rush attack it worked although it was a close thing. By surviving with this uncoventional opening Clausewitz either forced me or bluffed into an unusual unit switch (from fully upgraded heavy horse to 17th C dragoons). I went defensive and tried to pull off another "race to 18th C swindle". Clause did not fall for that this time. The game develops into a huge 18th C battle. I won't give away any more But look for intersting points like when I lure his heavy horse to bunch too close to my stone wall and clobber them with howitzers. Look at the gold race. See who really wins the long term gold race. Look at who gets his 18th C artillery on to the field and into position first. Look who makes better use of hills and positional control to strangle his opponent. Is it me or is it.... Clausewitz? Stay tuned (watch the game). surprised
Attachments: RN1_C515_0_0000.rec(73Kb) · RN1_CCD2_0_0000.rec(85Kb) · RN1_DEBB_0_0000.rec(1196Kb) · Phase_Profiles.xlsx(10Kb)


Message edited by Ftoomsh - Saturday, 03/August/2013, 11:31 PM
 
EbelAngelDate: Sunday, 04/August/2013, 3:20 AM | Message # 9
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Thanks

Quote (Ftoomsh)
I don't think I can add it till you add another comment and force me to a new message. Unless I can find a way to make this work.

I'm pretty sure if you click on the control bar on top you have access to the file manager, where you can upload multiple files at once (preferably in .rar or .zip) and then link to them here.

The attachments below here are limited to 2048kb , the file manager has a limit of 10MB files.


 
FtoomshDate: Sunday, 04/August/2013, 3:45 AM | Message # 10
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Ok, here is the compressed file of a great game. Be sure to read my explanation of balance concepts etc. in my above posts.
Attachments: RN1_9BEB_0_0000.rar(730Kb)
 
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