| Ftoomsh | Date: Wednesday, 05/June/2013, 1:09 AM | Message # 1 |
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| In rebalancing Davout's OC Mod, I have found that a couple of MD files appear to be missing and the units involved are not mentioned anywhere that I can find in the mod files mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1.
The units involved are the English Cavalier (17th heavy horse) and the Turkish Balkan Light Rider.
These units still appear in the mod and work except that the Balkan Light Rider attack and defence upgrades do not work and so are a waste of money.
I can't check the characteristics of these units and I cannot modify them because the MDF files are not there (that I can find). Where would I find the MD files for these units and what are their file names? Can anyone help?
Also, I have a general question. If unit characteristics are not in mods files I assume they are in the basic game code. Is that a correct assumption? However, if I could get the correct template for the MD files for these units then I could mod them via the mods files I assume.
Added Note: In addition, the shipyard MD files are not in mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1. How can I get hold of them too?
Update: I have discovered the English Cavalier file. It is RIENG.MD. So that is OK. I still cannot find the Balkan Light Rider .MD file.
For the Balkan Light Rider, called BalkanRider(TU), I have checked again and the defence upgrades do work. However, the attack upgrades most certainly do not work. I have looked at the code and gone through it with a fine tooth comb. I cannot see why it doesn't work. It clearly is not a syntax or coding error or it would bug out and give an error. Anyone have any suggestions on how I can track and correct this fault?
Update: Ok, it's funny how asking the question makes one look closer. I managed to find and fix the attack upgrade problem for Balkan Light Riders. The .NDS file had the upgrade weapon as PIKA when it should have been MECH (sword).
But I still can't find the Balkan Light Rider .MD file nor can I find the shipyard .MD files.
Message edited by Ftoomsh - Wednesday, 05/June/2013, 7:28 AM |
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| ab_99 | Date: Wednesday, 05/June/2013, 9:15 AM | Message # 2 |
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| Quote (Ftoomsh) Where would I find the MD files for these units and what are their file names? Can anyone help?
in the file All.gsc
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| EbelAngel | Date: Wednesday, 05/June/2013, 11:12 AM | Message # 3 |
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| Quote (Ftoomsh) But I still can't find the Balkan Light Rider .MD file nor can I find the shipyard .MD files.
MOL.MD ( Moldavan is the UNIQ.NDS original [MEMBERS]MD name)
Shipyards:
PORE.MD Europe
PORPO.MD Portugal
PORR.MD Russia
PORT.MD Turkey
PORU.MD Ukraine
As ab_99 said they can be found in the all.gsc file. Extract them, change them, and put them back into the mods01 or mods02.gs1 file.
See to the excel sheet in attachment if you are looking for others you can't find. It's not perfect but it beats looking for half an hour for a unit with an odd name.
Quote (Ftoomsh) . If unit characteristics are not in mods files I assume they are in the basic game code. Is that a correct assumption?
You will have to be more specific than that. Yes some characteristics default to whatever the engine says they are, and though i got an idea which one's those are, you will still have to tell me which one's you are looking for. Then i can tell you what those defaults are and what MD code should be used in the MD file.
Edit: I just loaded the 2 mod files you shared but it spams errors on starting. What i did what take a clean copy of cossacks back to war and add those 2 files into it. The error was 'could not load SCOTG.gp|rlc) . I know what is causing it,so it would be nice to have all files without having to first install the old OC mod.
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Thursday, 06/June/2013, 0:38 AM | Message # 4 |
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| EbelAngel, thank you for all the answers. I will follow up on that. LOL, the fact that the Balkan Rider was Moldavan completely fooled me. Luckily I could fix the attack upgrade issue in TURKISH.NDS as that is where the fault was.
QUOTE: "It's not perfect but it beats looking for half an hour for a unit with an odd name." LOL! and amen to that! I have wasted hours looking for files as I started rebalancing this Mod with zero starting knowledge.
QUOTE: "It would be nice to have all files without having to first install the old OC mod."
I am sorry about this but my Rebalancing of OC Mod is just that, a rebalancing, not a truly new Mod. Due to me being a Learner Driver when it comes to modding, I have simply been working on rebalancing via changes to the mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1 files. Thus my mod is predicated on the fact of having;
1. Cossacks BTW 1.35
2. Baddog Mod patch added to 1.35 (Baddog comes on the 1.35 disc and hopefully in the Steam 1.35 version.
3. The OC Mod Patches.
Then it is predicated on the idea that you simply go into the Cossacks OC Mod directory and rename the existing mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1 files to mods01.bak and mods02.bak. This is to keep copies of the original OC Mod files. Then you download the new files via my emailed Skydrive links. Normally, files will download to a directory in /Users or to any specific directory you have set up on your drive for downloaded files. Then you copy them into the Cossacks OC Mod directory.
It works very easily once you have overcome the hassle of patching to OC Mod.
I would have to learn quite a bit more to create a one patch step to go from Cossacks BTW 1.35 to OC Mod Balanced. Currently, I don't know how to do that. It might not even be possible for me to do it. I might need access to source code that I don't have; both source code for the Baddog patch and for the two (or three?) original OC Mod patches.
THE PHILOSOPHY OF WHAT I AM DOING (This is a bit long winded but you might find it interesting.)
All along, my aim this time round was to rebalance OC Mod and to begin to learn the very basics of Modding. With respect to OC Mod, I felt OC Mod had many good RTS game characteristics and suffered mainly from some very badly imbalanced nations. So, I sought to correct those imbalances via the costs and characteristics which could be accessed in the mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1 files. Features of OC Mod outside of these files were perforce left as they were.
I have been highly disappointed by the progress, or rather the lack of progress, in RTS concept design since the early 2000s. Specifically, I mean that Cossacks 1, as an example, began to show the way to truly large scale and strategic RTS. It was my hope that some RTS, especially Napoleonic era RTS, would progress to truly large scale, strategic games. I mean of a scale which would encompass battle fields of 10,000 meters by 10,000 meters square and armies of up to 64,000 per player. At a squeeze, one can get OC Mod up to 6,400 units per player so what I am envisaging is 10 times larger than that.
To match the large battle fields or playing maps of 10,000 m by 10,000 m such a game would be designed with fully and accurately scaled sight ranges, weapon ranges and unit speeds. Naturally, morale, fatigue and all such issues would also need to be modelled. To make the game playable and realistic, it would need many more features. Here are two key features which I advocate for the concept design.
Firstly, the game would not be a pure battlefield game nor a pure RTS game as we currently understand these genres or formats. It would be an amalgam of both, done in such a way as to enhance realism. Construction would be limited to military construction, meaning redoubts, gabions, trenches, fleches, defensive works and possibly temporary bridging works. Towns, permanent bridges and other features would already be on the maps. The economic build portion of RTS would be replaced by a mobilisation and forward positioning process along with the requirement for realistic logistics. Forward bases would be established by the player at or near the map edges where he starts. These bases are forward of an off-map rear which is assumed to be secure and logistically supportive. The player then works to secure and build these forward bases and the efficiency of this process controls the speed and efficiency with which he can deploy his off-map army of up to 64,000 onto the map and then forward position it for battle.
Secondly, to encompass the time spans necessary for this process, typically a few days to about 7 days of real time, the game would have a two speed time-engine. In the strategic phase, the phase of deployment, positioning and military works, the game engine would run at 60 to 1 speed. This would mean that 1 minute of player's time would see one hour elapse in-game. Action (all non-combat in the strategic phase) would occur at this speed on a map that shows things in small scale and shows formations by symbols. The player can call up and deploy formations, create defensive works around forward bases and reinforce promising deployment positions across the map etc.
Scouting and small very small clashes would not cause the time-engine to switch to tactical time. These clashes would be decided by the engine in the fog of war. Only when scouts survived and returned would scouting information become available to the player. Only when significant formations finally came within a defined action range (about the maximum range of heavy artillery, say 1,500 m) would the game engine switch to tactical time which would be 1 to 1, real time, with one minute of player time equalling one minute of in-game time. Engagments would happen in real time, all weapon ranges woould be real ranges, all reload times would be real times and so on.
Dead time, meaning for example nights when they are no actions, would be passed over. If both players indicate (through orders) they intend to take no actions until dawn then the game engine plays Last Post or Lights Out and then passes over the night and plays Reveille to signal a new day of action. The game engine would implement full weather effects, phases and the moon and so on.
The effect of the game would be like controlling a army corps or even several corps in the phases leading up to battle and then in the battle itself. Historical battles like Austerlitz, Wagram, Borodino or Waterloo would be fully playable for the entire final deployment and battle phases. This would be more than just battlefield gaming as the deployment and positioning phases (and defensive works) would be just as important as the final battlefield tactics. It would be a very challenging and interesting game.
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| EbelAngel | Date: Thursday, 06/June/2013, 10:22 AM | Message # 5 |
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| Quote (Ftoomsh) I am sorry about this but my Rebalancing of OC Mod is just that, a rebalancing, not a truly new Mod. Due to me being a Learner Driver when it comes to modding, I have simply been working on rebalancing via changes to the mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1 files. Thus my mod is predicated on the fact of having;1. Cossacks BTW 1.35
2. Baddog Mod patch added to 1.35 (Baddog comes on the 1.35 disc and hopefully in the Steam 1.35 version.
3. The OC Mod Patches.
Then it is predicated on the idea that you simply go into the Cossacks OC Mod directory and rename the existing mods01.gs1 and mods02.gs1 files to mods01.bak and mods02.bak. This is to keep copies of the original OC Mod files. Then you download the new files via my emailed Skydrive links. Normally, files will download to a directory in /Users or to any specific directory you have set up on your drive for downloaded files. Then you copy them into the Cossacks OC Mod directory.
It works very easily once you have overcome the hassle of patching to OC Mod.
I would have to learn quite a bit more to create a one patch step to go from Cossacks BTW 1.35 to OC Mod Balanced. Currently, I don't know how to do that. It might not even be possible for me to do it. I might need access to source code that I don't have; both source code for the Baddog patch and for the two (or three?) original OC Mod patches.
Yes i know that, and you know that, but if you are going to make it available to others, dont expect them to know this too. Also, make it as easy as possible. One should not have to install 2 others mods and then apply your changes before being able to play. It should come as one package with a one line instruction:
"Take a copy of back to war and copy the mod package files in it. "
I know you are still working on it but when you are finished you should add all the necessary files in a .rar or .zip or installer .exe.Quote (Ftoomsh) I would have to learn quite a bit more to create a one patch step to go from Cossacks BTW 1.35 to OC Mod Balanced. Currently, I don't know how to do that. It might not even be possible for me to do it. I might need access to source code that I don't have; both source code for the Baddog patch and for the two (or three?) original OC Mod patches.
Nah its not hard but it will take 10 minutes or so to make it so. Though the Baddog mod comes with a self extracting installer, the files itself can be extracted with a programe like Universal extractor. Then copy the OC mod onto it. Then apply your own mod files. Then pack up in a .rar/zip or if you feel adventurous make an .exe installer with a program like Clickteam install package creator.
My point is, its not hard if you know how to , but you should keep the "entry" to play the mod as simple as possible so that the people who do download it, dont get discouraged half way on the install before even getting to play it. I hope that made sense.
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Thursday, 06/June/2013, 12:16 PM | Message # 6 |
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| I understand the principle you outline and I agree with it. However, I have been taking baby steps to date. Essentially, I have been rebalancing Dav's OC Mod for the only two people left in the world who play it (to my knowledge) namely me and OC_Clausewitz. My next step was to try and get even just 2 more people interested in it so we could meet once a week on GSC and have a few 2 v 2 games. I assumed these people, if they came on board (like Daddio and maybe yourself), would be quite computer literate, aware of links and patches for OC Mod, so that a clunky two file upgrade from OC Mod to Balanced would be OK.
I really don't know if I am ever going to get many more people interested in OC Mod Balanced. And I really don't know if I would ever make a formal release of it. But as I progress, I might indeed follow the steps you advocate.
The key question of course is this. How many people could ever be drawn back to OC Mod Balanced? Cossacks 1 is a legacy game. With each new release of operating systems it gets harder to run it. Many people are biased against legacy games and think because legacy games don't have flash new 3D graphics they are no good.
There are also valid afficionado arguments against the Cossacks 1 engine, in its original state anyway. Morale, fatigue, supply and other factors are not modelled. Fire by line or fire and retire behaviour (or fire and bayonet charge for that matter) are not really modelled for line formations etc. etc. Muskets fire through friendlies without casualties. That is another issue.
To sum up, I am realistic about the fact that I will never attract more than a handful of people back to OC Mod Balanced. But I am still attempting to do at least that. My next reason for doing it is to learn about general modding principles from scratch. I have also dabbled in modding Supreme Commander / Forged Alliance. At this stage I limit myself to unit and building capabilities to rebalance and create a new, more militarily realistic dynamic in the games. However, very few people "get" my total ideas.
I have a couple of large essays on RTS theory which I can send to anyone interested. These essays are about RTS concept design and also about intrinsic design dilemmas like realism versus playability. I analyse these issues in considerable theoretical detail. One of my contentions is that large scale RTS design has gone on the wrong tracks or more accurately has gone nowhere essentially. I analyse why the commercial designers have failed to grapple with large scale realistic design and outline how it could actually be done.
Message edited by Ftoomsh - Thursday, 06/June/2013, 12:18 PM |
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| ab_99 | Date: Thursday, 06/June/2013, 2:58 PM | Message # 7 |
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| Quote (Ftoomsh) I have a couple of large essays on RTS theory which I can send to anyone interested. These essays are about RTS concept design and also about intrinsic design dilemmas like realism versus playability.
very interesting to hear your ideas.
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Saturday, 08/June/2013, 5:13 AM | Message # 8 |
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| Ok, let's see if I can successfully attach my first theory paper on RTS concept design.
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| ab_99 | Date: Saturday, 08/June/2013, 11:48 AM | Message # 9 |
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| Quote (Ftoomsh) Ok, let's see if I can successfully attach my first theory paper on RTS concept design.
Very interesting and understandable. Good analytical work. We look forward to continuing.
And you do not want to implement your theory in AI OsMod?
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Sunday, 09/June/2013, 10:47 AM | Message # 10 |
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| Thank you. I have started a new thread in Discussions with all the papers there: Paper 1 and then Papers 2 & 3 in a second document. Basically, I meant to split the second document into two papers as it is so large. But I have not gotten around to that yet.
What is AI OsMod?
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