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UnitsMD changes in C2 BFE
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| Nowy | Date: Sunday, 01/September/2013, 3:46 PM | Message # 1 |
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Marquis
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| UnitsMD files control units main features used in the game. These could be changed. There are several places worthy to improve.
1. Decrease units prices, especially wood, food, iron and coal.
2. Decrease artillery, grenadiers and sharpshooters ammunition worn per shot.
3. Increased light cannons round shot maximal attack radius and lower minimal attack radius.
4. Decrease slightly heavy cannons maximal and minimal attack radius.
5. Decrease slightly howitzers minimal attack adius.
6. Increase artillery, inantry and cavalry razbros.
7. Increase 2 or 3 times artillery guns and limbers limits in artillery depots.
8. Decrease marksmen infantry and cavalry fire arms shot damage.
9. Decrease sharpshooter infantry shot damage and ammunition worn per shot.
10. Delete Grenadiers hand grenade at all.
Things from points 1 to 9 I've done and tested in skirmish game. These work nice, however also rise next problems.
Did not delete hand grenades yet. There are some other questions too.
1. How better decrease deadly hit on targets with artillery guns and muskets?
These weapons are too accurate in the game now. What better control these fire arms? Razbros dispersion or damage?
2. How better regulate units resources consumption?
Infantry units hed resconsumer food 8. Grenadiers aslo had gold 7. But where are covered cavalry and artillerymen consumption?
3. How delete hand grenades from the game or make it imposible to attack with hand greandes?
It is not enough decrease grenade damage to 0. Grenades should be deleted somwhere else.
Weaponkind IADROMOR is horrible and inflict short lags too.
If somebody can help or give some advices it would be fine.
Message edited by Nowy - Sunday, 01/September/2013, 3:49 PM |
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| ab_99 | Date: Sunday, 01/September/2013, 6:59 PM | Message # 2 |
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| mr. Nowy
You finally want to make a patch? 
You must first create a table with the units. And then edit the MD- files . See the example table for patch 1.4.
1. Razbros
2 . See "IronManModV1_5_BFE", how to change the diet of horses
3 . not to remove grenades, it looks beautiful.  Just to reduce the damage and leave an impact on morale . Instead IADROMOR use a shell of smaller size. Indeed garnet more than the head of a grenadier . Added (01/September/2013, 6:59 PM)
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PS! You can also limit the sector buckshot , for the guns .
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| Nowy | Date: Sunday, 01/September/2013, 8:09 PM | Message # 3 |
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Marquis
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| Hmm, patch it is bigger case I suppose. I am not programmer and this is too early stage.
I still experiment. Created table with main features, this of course helped me. Changed many things.
Tested new features in skirmish games. These became more dynamic, however it is still slaugtherhouse.
1. I increased artillery Razbros + 100.
Decreased also light cannon damage to 2000. Nevertheless they still are too accurate and very deadly.
2. Were is covered resconsumer for cavalry and artilerymen?
3. Grenades in C2 are stupid.
They are not historicaly accurate at all. Grenadiers did not use hand grenades at that period. Their main strenght was bayonets assaults or combats.
Grenades in C2 inflict strange effects e.g. short game lags.
I reduced demage to 10 and even to 0, but it looks stupid when AI still try use grenades.
4. How I can change sector buckshot? This is not so important, case shots in the game looks quite fine.
5. How better change weapon for hussars from kartech musket to standard cavalry musket?
6. What are English UnitsMD names for artillery limber, rocket launcher and altileryman?
Message edited by Nowy - Sunday, 01/September/2013, 8:38 PM |
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Sunday, 01/September/2013, 11:35 PM | Message # 4 |
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| Nowy, your suggestions and changes make sense to me. I admit I have little experience or ability at playing C2. However, it does seem to me that costs are too high and the player keeps hitting game-imposed ceilings despite best play. As I said in another thread, one should feel like one is fighting the other player not fighting the game model itself. In practical play in C2 it seems impossible to avoid hitting the unit limit constantly and/or running out of ammunition. (I have a note about ammunition shortages at the end.)
RTS (Real Time Strategy) is a growth game. That is a fundamental element of what it is. Constant, continuous growth (to some high limit) should be possible unless and until opposition pressure makes that difficult. The game model itself should make growth challenging but growth should not hit bottle-necks before the ultimate ceiling WITH best play and WITHOUT serious opposition or damage from the opponent.
Having said the above, RTS is of course unrealistic in many ways. If you want realistic combat, then the answer is to remove or seriously modify the defining RTS element. The defining RTS element is the need to grow an economic base and then convert that into military power. Battlefield games (like Hawks of the Field play) remove the RTS element and the Battlefield model is one way of doing it.
Another way would be the "Mobilisation Model". This is what I called "New Realism Style" in another post. The term "Mobilisation Model" is probably better and more descriptive. Instead of modelling economic-military growth, the game could model mobilisation. The defining characteristic of both models is the commencement with few operational units and the growth to many operational units. The difference is that on the timescale of battles and even wars (days, months or a few years), economic growth is not a significant factor. Pre-existing economic capacity IS a factor and conversion of that productive capacity to greater military production (and therefore less civilian production) is also a factor. But again, this can be left out in a "Mobilisation Model". A mobilisation model need only model mobilisation and direct military supply or logistics.
Analytically, what would be the difference beween the the RTS growth model and the Mobilisation model? Examples will explain it best.
1. In an RTS model production structures will be progressively built. In a Mobilisation model production structures will pre-exist.
2. In an RTS model production military units will be progressively made. In a mobilisation model military units will pre-exist but will need mobilisation and supply to conduct field operations.
In terms of playing mechanics and playing experience, the Mobilisation model would occupy a place midway between RTS and Battlefield games. RTS growth skills would be replaced by mobilisation and pre-positioning deployment skills. Pre-positioning also exists in RTS and even Battlefield games, in the latter as manouvres before engagement. But I suspect pre-positioning in a Mobilisation model would feel different to both RTS and Battlefield games.
NOTE: Ammunition Shortages.
Of course, the most accurate way to model ammunition supply is to have each unit issued with so many paper cartridges (shot plus powder). In an engagment or series of engagements, these supplies could be exhausted. Realistic resupply would have to occur by mule train or wagon from central ammunition stores.
Message edited by Ftoomsh - Sunday, 01/September/2013, 11:37 PM |
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| Nowy | Date: Monday, 02/September/2013, 9:16 AM | Message # 5 |
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Marquis
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| Vanilla C2 game incude few modes:
1. RTS skirmish
2. Mobilisation in Battle for Europe Campaign
3. Battlefield in historical battles.
RTS standard games allow avoid problems with resoursec. Proper BO, upgrades in villages, good actions and timing would be enough.
I changed some UnitsMD files because tried experiment, how game could include more realistic features in battle tactics.
I decreased units prices, made better artillery ranges and bigger limits. Decreased grenadiers hand grenades damage.
Decreased cavalry, marksmen and sharpshooters infantry shot damage. Made few other changes too.
It was funny case because I achieved more dynamic skirmish games.
However that was not my main goal. Gameplay became faster from the start. Allow create more units, but it was still slaughterhouse.
These could mean that infantry units creation time (buildstages) are too fast and all fire arms still are too powerful and too accurate.
AI also has some tactical glitches. Many times it stupidly send squads too close to enemy fire arms.
What is strange AI slightly delayed actions in other directions. AI react little bit too late on enemy strategic outflank manoeuvres.
However AI smartly tried cooperate their infantry and cavalry as well as tactically outflank enemy frontline. That was fine.
Nevertheless AI still can not led properly artillery. After short fire stage they stupidly move guns to enemy frontline.
Cavalry also has some strange cases. They charge and then stay too close to enemy squads even they can not break them.
This allow fire at static cavalry squad in short range. Cavalry should immadiately withdraw at proper range e.g. behind muskets green or yellow zones.
Serious problem still are squads crossing throug another ally squads. This looks quite fullish when cavalry can charge accross own infantry or artillery and do not inflict any friendly casualties or squads disorganizations. The best way would be when cavalry could not charge through ally squads. Cavalry charge should passing round ally squads. However it looks that there is not enough free room on such small maps.
These also mean thaty UnitsMD files changes needs some more work and tests.
It would be good look at maneuvres and AI too.
PS
Ammunition and supply cases are importand. I postulated pack horses, ammunition and supply wagons in the game too.
Message edited by Nowy - Monday, 02/September/2013, 9:24 AM |
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| ab_99 | Date: Monday, 02/September/2013, 1:21 PM | Message # 6 |
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| mr. Nowy
Text\mdlist.txt:
UNITSMD\ARTPUSR.MD rocket
UNITSMD\ARTPUS3.MD limber
etc...
watch:
\AI\BrigadeAI\BattleRules.ai
#HORSE UnitKDrg(FR) UnitKKir(FR) UnitKGre(FR) UnitKKar(FR) UnitKDrg(RU) UnitKKir(RU) UnitKKir(PR) UnitKDrg(PR) UnitKKar(PR) UnitKDrg(EN) UnitKKar(EN) UnitKDrg(AU) UnitKKir(AU) UnitKKir(RE) UnitKDrg(RE) UnitKKra(PO) UnitKKir(PO) UnitKDrg(SP)
...
#HORSE UnitKUln(FR) UnitKEgr(FR) UnitKGus(FR) UnitKMam(FR) UnitKEgr(RU) UnitKGus(RU) UnitKMam(RU) UnitKUln(RU) UnitKEgr(PR) UnitKDrg(PR) UnitKKir(PR) UnitKKar(PR) UnitKFlg(PR) UnitKGus(PR) UnitKEgr(EN) UnitKGus(EN) UnitKMam(EG) UnitKDrg(EG) UnitKUln(AU) UnitKGus(AU) UnitKEgr(AU) UnitKArb(EG) UnitKDKoz(RU) UnitKUln(PO) UnitKGus(PO) UnitKEgr(PO) UnitKKir(PO) UnitKEgr(SP) UnitKGus(SP) UnitKGus(RE) UnitKLan(RE)
...
Quote (Nowy) 1. I increased artillery Razbros + 100. Decreased also light cannon damage to 2000. Nevertheless they still are too accurate and very deadly.
what do you want, to the kernel not be killed?
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| Nowy | Date: Tuesday, 03/September/2013, 10:15 AM | Message # 7 |
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Marquis
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| ab 99 I found these files earlier, but thanks again for your advice.
Quote ("ab 99") what do you want, to the kernel not be killed?
I want to improve artillery accuracy. You know aiming and firing with artillery guns at that eara was not easy case and there was hard to hit on target.
Sometimes artillery needed many shots to inflict some casualties. Round shots were horrible deadly when they hit on target, but hit on target was not easy case. Cannonballs flied away many times and they hits the ground in front of target or behind or to the left or to the right from target. Hit on target was not easy case especially at long range. At very long range hit on target was very luckily case.
I thought that guns accuracy could be improved by razbros.
However I find that rockets in the game has much worse accuracy than cannons, while both they had similar razbros.
There is a questions what razbros mean and what it controls in the game?
I also find some differences in addshotradius case.
Has this something to do with fire arms accuracy?
Message edited by Nowy - Tuesday, 03/September/2013, 10:15 AM |
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| ab_99 | Date: Tuesday, 03/September/2013, 11:42 AM | Message # 8 |
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| razbros - russian artillery is the term in 1812 (just kidding) , which means "scatter"
Quote (Nowy) However I find that rockets in the game has much worse accuracy than cannons, while both they had similar razbros.
you should examine the file WEAPON.NDS:
there are set parameters weapons:
ROCKETKON #ROCKETKON 340 20 NONE LO_GRAVITY ANGLE 20 -1
PPOINTT #POINT 0 0 NONE NO_GRAVITY SLIGHTUP 0 1
KARTECHNEW #POINT 45 20 NONE LO_GRAVITY SECTOR 30 2500 45 0 170
KARTECHFORRIFLE #POINT 5 10 NONE HI_GRAVITY SECTOR 30 300 3 0
KARTECHNEWDALNAIA #POINT 120 20 NONE NO_GRAVITY SECTOR 20 20 25 0
. . .
[DAMAGEHEIGHT]ROCKETKON 50
KARTECHNEW 85
KARTECHNEWDALNAIA 550
KARTECHFORRIFLE 50
SKOKAT 20
SKOKAT2 40
SKOKAT3 60
(SKOKAT - this is the last stage of the nucleus)
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| Nowy | Date: Tuesday, 03/September/2013, 2:13 PM | Message # 9 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
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| Hmm, I know little bit Russian and can understand that razbros could mean scatter, but still do know what razbros realy control in the game.
Earlier you suggested that it can control accuracy, however razbros poorly scatter roundshot hits on targets. Then I was little bit confused.
I tried examine what control cannonballs hits on targets. I want make artillery guns more inaccurate.
WEAPON.NDS case also is not clear to me.
For instance, what control:
GRAVITY SLIGHTUP
GRAVITY SECTOR
SKOKAT 20 or 40 or 60 ?
Is that mean bouncing roundshot (cannonball) or final hit the ground and strange projectile explosion?
Still do not know what control ADDSHOTRADIUS amount?
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| ab_99 | Date: Wednesday, 04/September/2013, 0:28 AM | Message # 10 |
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| to pan poliglot? 
razbros - scatter for unit
PROMAX -analogue for building
Do the upgrade to reduce the scatter for the gun. And run it as necessary.
ADDSHOTRADIUS - is the addition of the range, in the case when the gun is loaded, and the enemy is near the area of the lesion (presumably).
Added (04/September/2013, 0:28 AM)
---------------------------------------------
PPOINTT causing a chain of events:
PPOINTT -->DIM32_2-->NUCL2P
NUCL2P causing a chain of events:
NUCL2P --> SKOKAT--> SKOKAT--> SKOKAT--> PUWALL
...
etc...
[MEMBERS]PPOINTT #POINT 0 0 NONE NO_GRAVITY SLIGHTUP 0 1
DIM32_2 #DIM32 1 20 WHITE NO_GRAVITY SLIGHTUP 0 1
NUCL2P #NUCL1 340 35 NONE HI_GRAVITY ANGLE 10 -1
[SYNCWEAPON]PPOINTT 2 DIM32_2 NUCL2P
[CHILDWEAPON]NUCL2P 1 1 0 4 SKOKAT SKOKAT SKOKAT PUWALL
[CUSTOMEXPLOSION]SKOKAT WATER 1 1 0 1 VODABUL
SKOKAT2 WATER 1 1 0 1 VODABUL
SKOKAT3 WATER 1 1 0 1 VODABUL
NUCL2P WATER 1 1 0 1 VODABUL
[SOUND]DIM32_2 PUSVIS1
Message edited by ab_99 - Wednesday, 04/September/2013, 0:31 AM |
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