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Managing Peasants in C2
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Monday, 26/August/2013, 8:10 AM | Message # 1 |
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Group: Modders
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| I need a few pointers on managing peasants in C2. Is it best to leave the the Auto search for idle peasants on or off? I have been leaving it on but I am finding that causes a few odd effects which I do not like.
1. I try to split my starting peasants into two groups of 5 which I hotkey with 1 and 2. But sometimes some run away to auto work before I hot key them and I lose track of them. I want to hot key them and then get them doing what I want.
2. I task five peasants to build a building and only 1 or 2 go and do it. The other 3 or 4 keep working on stone or wood (current task). I have to right click again on building to make them all work on it.
Any suggestions? Plus any other suggestions on efficient use of peasants, sheds etc., and of sappers?Added (26/August/2013, 8:10 AM)
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Another question: Are played games recorded anywhere? Is there any way to record games? I would learn from watching recorded games.
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| Nowy | Date: Monday, 26/August/2013, 1:16 PM | Message # 2 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
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| I usually leave auto serach for idle peasants on. Later I do not bother about peasants too much. In majority they go to wood.
Time to time I also manualy send few men to stone. I do not use hot key for any peasant groups. But if you like you can do it.
If you get some troubles with 10 starting peasants, as I do sometimes, try send all peasantsl to build TC - Town Centre.
Then before they start build take 4 peasants and make group, they became your main builders.
Send them immediately to build Barrack and later they could build next few buildings. Then they can go to stone too.
Other 5 peasants build TC, later they should go to stone. You could make gruop, if you plan use them later as builders, but this is not necessary.
Meanwhile next 1 peasant can build Store (shed) and after that he goes to wood.
Then you do not need bother about all of these peasants.
Sappers can effectively help build faster next buildings.
Resources are gathered in TC ans Store.
One Store is enough. You could build it close to stone or wood or Food Village. It is your choice how you plan exploit map conditions.
Later you also could gain an advantage when you build next Store close to far locate Food or other needed recources which you capture.
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| Daddio | Date: Tuesday, 27/August/2013, 0:23 AM | Message # 3 |
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Marquis
Group: Moderators
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| Well, first question, I would leave the auto search on. the last thing you want is a peon that is standing idle.
I normally set 5 peons to make TC and send the other to where I plan to make my next building. Depending on the nation it will likely be a storage building or barracks. I hot key these second 5 and use them throughout most of the remainder of building I do. The first 5 that I used to build TC go directly to stone.
Second question, never leave them idle. if you are waiting on resources to build up, them put them to work. then hot key them to build your building.
Third question, if a peon is inside of a TC or storage shed delivering stone food, or wood, then they will ignore your call to build. you will have to select them again to bring them in.
There is no forth question but I am going to offer an answer anyway.  . Remember to put 20 peons on wood, 10 on stone, and the rest go to food. It is very important early on that all are producing something. Do not use peons to build stockades, or towers. Keep them in your camp producing resources. You will get a very slow start if you do not. Build sappers as soon as you are able. and use them for out of camp work. I build 5 - 8 sappers for in camp work as well. just hot key them, have a peon start a building letting the sappers do the building.
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg
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| Ftoomsh | Date: Tuesday, 27/August/2013, 1:22 AM | Message # 4 |
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| Thanks Nowy and Daddio, excellent ideas.
I attempted a couple of more (rated) games on the internet. Unfortunately, this time I got someone who was far too sharp for me. The random maps we got were horrible and one was terribly unbalanced. This unbalanced map had only 1 home mill each and 1 more mill much closer to his starting base and on his side of a river with bridges to boot. I fail to see how such a map is fair or even remotely playable. Or maybe that was his base mill and the other one was between us but still much closer to him than me.
The next map featured fairer mills; starting mill plus another mill for each player. However it seemed a very small map with impassable hills everywhere. By the time I got to being ready to build a stables there was actually nowhere near my base center where I could put it and nowhere near a road where I could put it. I had to put it out of town a bit beside a track not a road.
In this game, he trapped my first muskets group at the second mill with 2 formations. My second muskets had taken another route to secure gold or iron (I forget which). Then as I was bringing up highlanders to support the formation almost trapped at the mill (I didn't want to give up the mill uncontested), I noticed he was already building a fort between this mill and my home base on the corner of the road so that it would be impossible for me to bring up support for the trapped formation. I tried to shoot the sappers but it was too late, the fort was built. I gg'd and left. It was a narrow edge and there was no way to get support to the mill without taking a very long round on this blocked and choked map. And no way for a beginner player like me to survive another 1 mill game against a clearly seasoned opponent.
This raises the issue of early forts placed forward towards your base or between your base and another mill or mine. They completely change the strategic situation. By the time you organised sappers or grenadiers to blow it up (at considerable casualties no doubt) the game would already be lost in most cases.
I must say I don't like this lack of realism that allows such buildings to build so quick and so forward with relatively few builders and to be built without carrying building materials there on mules or carts. What do the builders do? Carry the materials there in their pockets? OK, some materials could be gathered locally but I don't see the sappers cutting trees and trimming logs first.
Forward building of offensive structures without the need for materials logistics has always annoyed me in games like AOE and now BF2. It's not really viable in OC Mod on large open maps as towers and log cabins take a long time to build and such action is easily noticeable with the longer sight ranges in Cossacks 1.
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| Daddio | Date: Tuesday, 27/August/2013, 1:58 AM | Message # 5 |
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Marquis
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| While the game allows it, it is considered a very cheap trick especially against a rookie player. I would write his name down and not play him again. All building are unrealistic in this manner. It is assumed that if you have gathered the resources to build a building then they must be usable and at hand. I always thought they should have to build a lumber yard first.
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg
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| Nowy | Date: Tuesday, 27/August/2013, 9:37 AM | Message # 6 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
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| I do not think that maps in C2 are unbalanced. There always are equal number of villages. Initially both players occupied 4 basic villagers each.
There also are few neutral villages defended only by policemen. These villages of cource are placed at different distances from players camps, but it is not so important.
You always could capture few neutral villages and even you can not capture second mill, you can gain more other resources.
Then you can exchange these resources on food. That is why early market could be useable. You also can make upgrages in first mill earlier.
These costs a lot of wood, but you gain more food.
You should led cautious operations. Do not engage in combats too much. If you do not plan rush tactic, better avoid early combats.
You need more squads which could cooperate in combats. For instance fine small force can organize 2 infantry and 1 cavalry squads.
These allow exploit small tactical advantage. Infanty can push and weaken enemy and then cavalry charge on enemy which reload his muskets.
These mean you need more tactical skills and you should led your forces in well organized actions.
According forts. If enemy build fort too early or too close to front line, he could easly lost it. Create howitzer it can easily destroy such fort.
Heavy cannons also can destroy fortifications from long distance, but it needs more hits. Light cannons also can destroy fortifications, but it fired at short distance and needed much more hits on target. Sapper also can undermine fortifications, but it take a lot of time to make explosions.
Fort is build from local resourses as all other buildings in Cossacks games. All buildings are build realitively very fast.
That is clear and usable simplification. You never can spend few years or month needed to build fortress or other big buildings in the game.
C2 has suficient timing, but you need learn some easy things. They are different from your experience in C1.
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| Daddio | Date: Wednesday, 28/August/2013, 0:35 AM | Message # 7 |
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| Nowy, have you ever played multiplayer?
There are several maps that are not balanced. and if a player gets a fort up between you and your resources, all of those resources will never make it you. the fort will fire on you mule trains. while the game allows such things, it is considered to me at least as not an honorable thing to do, and I will not play against players who do so.
And without a second mill you are doomed in early game.
Against AI what you say is possible, but not against a real player?
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg
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| Nowy | Date: Wednesday, 28/August/2013, 2:43 AM | Message # 8 |
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Marquis
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| I played multiplayer few years ago, but I did not like it. There were too many troubles or even bad things, therefore I prefer singleplayer.
C2 have many glitches, but I can not agree that maps are unbalanced.
There are many difficult locations, but in practice each map has similar Villages.
You can always capture few Villages and even you have not second food, you can exchange some resources on food or on upgrades.
In this game active military operations are the most important. It's mean you should capture more villages than your opponent. You also should control choke-points. When you can capture more villages then it dose not matter you had or had not second food. When you win in economy and military then sooner or later you capture that village.
Experienced player usually capture second food earlier, becouse it is easier gamplay.
Therefore it is rare case when somebody can not capture second food as first captured village.
According fort placed between you and your resources it is of course not honorable thing, but you can quikly destroy such fortification with howitzer.
Fort build to far on enemy territory is usually poorly defended. Destroyed fort costs your enemy some resources. Then such tactic is not so good against experienced player which know how to defend his territory and how quickly destroy such bad fortification.
Message edited by Nowy - Wednesday, 28/August/2013, 2:44 AM |
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| Daddio | Date: Wednesday, 28/August/2013, 10:44 PM | Message # 9 |
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Marquis
Group: Moderators
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| I agree, when playing against the AI. These things can be overcome.
But not against a real person. Many maps are so badly unbalanced that the advantage is insurmountable. and if they come up in multiplayer the game is restarted since most will not play them.
http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg
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| Nowy | Date: Thursday, 29/August/2013, 9:22 AM | Message # 10 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
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| I do not think that in multiplayer maps inflict problems.
These maps theoretically are well balanced and each player has equal villages at start. Few neutral villages are differently located, but issue is not in these locations. Setlements and other terrain conditions are important, but real problems rise with linear building order, units creations sequences and reinforcement system. Units also require too much food.
Then fast start and economy growth determine unit creations. These determine actions.
Who create cheap and fast units this can capture needed resourses earlier, then his opponet has worse condition.
Problems are not in locations, but they rise with actions and reactions. Units creation require lot of food, then second food is necessary.
When somebody lost few formations in early stage, then he get in troubles, because he can not capture next villages or defend imoprtant choke-points in proper time.
These mean that maps balance relay on early actions made by cheap units. Villages locations are less important. Even players chose the same nations
and can equaly build and create units. Problems are in many things. For instance units balance is more important than Villages locations.
Message edited by Nowy - Thursday, 29/August/2013, 9:28 AM |
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