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Cossacks III wishlist
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| Nowy | Date: Tuesday, 31/March/2015, 3:06 PM | Message # 1 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
Messages: 320
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| There were few rumors that GSC World Game is come back. It could looks that they resume their work under video games.
Cossacks fans waited for next Cossacks style RTS games. So, I start here discussion under Cossacks III future features.
My intention is formulate Cossacks fans wishlist in 10 general points.
1. Game timeline
2. Game modes
3. Factions
4. Strategic and tactical Maps
5. Economy
6. Units
7. General Commanders
8. Basic squad strength and tactical formations
9. Order of battle
10. Victory conditions
I prefer such wishlist.
1. Napoleonic Wars timeline 1804-1814
2. Game modes
- skirmish
- historical battles e.g. Austeritz, Jena-Auerstedt, Eylau, Friedland, Wagram, Talavera, Salamanca, Borodino, Leipzig, Waterloo
- Campaigns: in Germany, Italy, Austria, Prussia, Poland, Ottoman, Spain, Russia and France
- Grand Campaigs similar to Cossacks II Battle for Europe
- Editor
3. Factions
Eighteen factions balanced in six tiers
* Dominant maritime, mercantile, industrial and colonial great power = Great Britain
* Dominant land great powers = France in West Europe and Russia in East Europe
* Major land powers in troubles = Austria and Prussia in Central Europe
* Major powers in decline = Spain in Iberian Peninsula and Ottoamn Turkey in South East Europe, Asia Minor and North Africa
* Divided, dependent or emergent six collective factions
- North German = French enmy Brunswick, Hannover, French ally Saxony and Westphalia
- South German = French ally Rhine Confederation, Baden, Bavaria, Berg, Wurttemberg etc.
- North Italian = French ally Napoloenic Italy, Fench and Austrian annexed teritories
- South Italian = French enemy Naples and Rome, British allied Sardinia and Sicilly
- Polish = French ally Polish Legions, Duchy of Warsaw and partitioned Poland
- Egyptian = Mamelukes and Muhammad Ali Pasha factions dependent to Ottomans
* Five minor factions
- Batavia-Holland = French forced ally, later French enemy
- Denmark-Norway = armed neutrality, later French ally
- Sweden-Finland = French enemy, occasionally attacked by Russia
- Swiss-Helvetia = French forced ally and Swiss soldiers in French and Spanish service
- Portugal = British ally, French enemy and Portuguese Legion in French service
Each power tier could realise strategies adequate to their limited abilities, conditions and possibilities.
These determine thier sphers of activity, economy development and military operations. Any single faction can not conquer all Europe at that period. All factions needed allies or coalitions.
4. Strategic and tactical maps
Strategic map could include:
- 70 land sectors
- 30 sea sectors
- 10 key strongholds
- 20 key dockyards and naval bases
- 30 significant fortresses
- 40 significant trade ports
- 50 distant or colonial trade centres
- main sea lanes between significant sea ports
- main roads between land sectors capitals
Skirmish maps conditions needs more description I can define it later.
5. Economy
Economy development should base on agriculture, fishing, mining, manufacturing and trading. Main powers tiers could build their own specific economies. Great Britain had Industrial Revolution which rapidly changed and grew thier economy. France based on extensive agriculture and weapon industry. Russia based on agriculture, rich resources and harsh serf system. Austria and Prussia based on agriculture and moderate serf system. Spain and Ottoman based on Mediteranean and colonial economy. Divided factions based on agriculture and reformed serf system. Minor factions developed small scale economy, they lacked in manpower and resources.
Other questions of economy development I can describe later.
6. Units
All factions can create their own units in specialised gropus: Workers, Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery, Sappers, Trains and Vessels
Infantry create various types e.g. Line Infantry, Light Infantry, Grenadier, Skirmisher, Reserve, Foreign, Guard or Elite Infantry
Cavalry create various types e.g. Light Cavalry, Heavy Cavalry, Guard or Elite Cavalry, Irregular Cavalry
Artillery create various types e.g. Foot Artillery, Horse Artiller, Position Artillery, Regimental Artillery, Siege Bombardment Artilery
Sappers skilled in specific duties e.g miners, pioneers, pontoniers and sappers
Vessels create various types e.g. sea boat, river barge, merchant brig or sloop, transport vessel, gun brig, sloop of war, post ship or small frigate, frigate, three types of ship of the line, small, common and large.
7. General Commanders
General Commanders and Chiefs with assigned Adjutant officers. Generals ranked in five ranks:
- Brigade Generla and similarily ranked Army Corps Chiefs of Staff, of Engineers, of Artillery, each one with one Adjutant
- Division General, Chiefs of Engineers, of Artillery of the Army, each one with two Adjutants
- Army Corps, Guard Cavalry, Guard Infantry, Reserve Cavalry General Commanders and Chief of Staff of the Army, each one with three Adjutants
- Commander of the Army with four Adjutants
- Supreme Commander with five Adjutants in accompany with one Suite General with his two Adjutants and one Suite General with his one Adjutant, and escort 15 men elite cavalry squadron
Navy Commanders needed for ships gropus in foru ranks:
- Commodore with one navy Adjutant officer
- Rear Admiral with two navy Adjutant officers
- Vice Admiral with three navy Adjutants officers
- Admiral with four navy Adjutants officers
8. Basic squad strength and tactical formations
Infantry
- Company = 12 men
- Battalion = 108 men plus officer, flag bearer and drummer
Cavalry
- Squadron = 15 cavalrymen
- Regiment = 45 or 60 cavalrymen plus cavalry officer, flag bearer and trumpeter or other signal men
Irregular Cavalry
- Cossack sotnia, Landwehr, Mameluke, etc small squad = 10 cavalrymen
- Cossack, Landwehr Regiment, Mameluker Orta etc. = 50 cavalrymen plus officer and flag bearer or other signal man
Artillery
Field Artillery
- Foot Artillery Battery = 3 6 pounder cannons, horse drawn limbers and foot artillerymen
- Horse Artillery Battery = 3 6 pounder cannons, horse drawn limbers, horse artillerymen
- Position Artillery Batery = 3 12 poundr heavy cannons, horse drawn limnbers, foot artillerymen
- Howitzer = howitzer attached to battery, horse drawn limber, artillerymen
- Russian Unicorn instead howitzer = special gun which shot in high trajectory, between howitzer and haevy cannon
- Guard Regimental Artillery Section = 2 the same type cannons, horse drawn limbers, artillerymen
- British Rocket Artillery Section = 2 rocket launchers, horse drawn limbers, artillerymen
Cannons can shots in flat or low trajectory, howiters and rocket launchers shots in high trajectory.
Siege Bombardement Artillery
- Howitzer Artillery Section = 2 howitzers, limbers and artillerymen
- Cannon Artillery Section = 2 12 pounder cannons, horse drawn limbers, artillerymen
- Heavy Cannon Section = 2 24 pounder heavy cannons, horse drawn limbers, artillerymen
- Mortar Artillery Section = 2 mortars, horse drawn limbers, artillerymen
- British Rocet Artillery Section
Garrison Artillery
Cannons placed in fixed fortifications e.g. Tower, Bastion, Fort or Fortress
Specialised Companies
Skirmisher Company = 12 skirmisher soldiers
Sapper, Miner, Pioneer, Pontonier Company = 12 men
Train Companies
Artillery Train Company = horse drawn 4 ammunition caissons, each with 2 drivers
Engineer Train Company = horse drawn 2 carriers with pontoons and tools, each with 2 drivers
Baggage, Equipage and Supply Train Company = horse drawn 2 wagons, each with 2 drivers
Ships groups
- Individual vessels e.g. fishing boats, river barges, merchant ships
- Transport convoy = 2 or 4 transport vessels used in landing operations
- Costal Guard Team = 2 gun-brigs or cutters, guarding costal sea sectors
- Post Team = 2 post ships guarding important places e.g. anchorage, key harbours, key roadsteads
- Escort Squadron = 2 sloops of war, escortinhg transport convoys or battle squadrons
- Patrol squadron = 2 small frigates, patroling sea lanes and strategic areas
- Cruiser Squadron = 4 frigates, one ship needs Commodore and Adjutant officer on board
- Battle squadron = 4 ships of the line, one ship needs Vice Admiral or Rear Admiral and Adjutants on board
- Fleet = 10 ships of the line, three ships needs Admiral or Vice Admiral or Rear Admiral and Adjutants on board
Basic tactical formations I can describe later.
9. Order of battle
Army needs complex composition including General Commanders, Chiefs, Infantry, Cavalry, Engineers and Trains units.
Suads groups should include typical organization used in that epoc as like Brigade, Division, Army Corps, Guard etc.
Each faction had their own order of battle, however standard rules were similar. I can describe army structure later.
10. Victory conditions
Various victoy conditions are necessary. For instance in Grand Campaign victory conditions could base on six objectives.
* Hold control over initially owned sectors or Town Centres
* Hold control over chosen sectors, key strongholds, or try stay neutral
* Make possible alliances or coalitions and cooperate with allied factions
* Create Army and eventually Navy, destroy enemies armies and navies
* Send military contingents to chosen sector and occupuy these sectors
* Help allies hold control over their home sectors or other chosen sectors
Each faction could include their own objectives, but they should include realistic conditions.
I can describe such proposition later.
Now we can discuss Cossacks fans general wishlist for Cossacks III game.
Message edited by Nowy - Wednesday, 08/April/2015, 9:24 AM |
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| kirjasbeltran | Date: Wednesday, 01/April/2015, 0:50 AM | Message # 2 |
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Viscount
Group: Users
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| How about a cossacks game, or any related game that focuses on Asian civilizations like the Meiji era of Japan, Chinese dynasties or Korean dynasties, india during the times that it was colonized by the British, Persia or any middle eastern nations. Units may include naginata warriors or riders, samurai, ninja, Japanese riflemen for Japan, cho ko nu, and other Chinese military units for China, war wagon for Koreans, camels and elephants for Indians, Persians and middle eastern nations. Formations should include their own versions of officers, standard bearers and drummers. If playing as factions with cavalry units that uses war wagons, camels and elephants, those nations should have a war wagon, elephant, camel, and war wagon(Koreans only)variant of a mounted standard bearer that is usually a horse variant. As for formations, there are some limitations. Horse variants can lead horse and camel cavalry but not elephant or war wagons. Camel variants can lead camel and horse cavalries, war wagon variant can lead war wagons, horse and camel units, though war wagons cannot be led by horse or camel variants. Elephant variants can only lead elephant units but not war wagons, hoRse or camel units. I'd also love to have infantry units being attached to mounted standard bearers as well. As for the technology, how about enabling the infantry to be equipped with explosives so that they can destroy buildings, since some real world physics applies to this game, though it is only limited to morale and inability to destroy buildings using guns or meelee weapons. I just hope that they do not program the units to react to the weather
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| Nowy | Date: Wednesday, 01/April/2015, 8:30 AM | Message # 3 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
Messages: 320
Status: Offline
| In this thread we can discuss about future Cossacks III fans wishlist.
When you propose include Asian ancient factions in this game it is little bit strange.
Asian ancient factions are out of Cossacks sphers of activity and timeline. Cossacks lived in East Europe and Russia in 16-20 centuries. They were involved mainly in European wars. Cossacks of course took part in colonization era in Far East Asia and Alaska, however they did not stick with Asian ancient dynasties.
If you like Asian ancient dynasties you can find them in other games e.g. Age of Empires or Total War series.
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| kirjasbeltran | Date: Wednesday, 01/April/2015, 9:54 AM | Message # 4 |
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Viscount
Group: Users
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| if that is the case, then it can be a different game with a game engine similar to cossacks, but not necessarily a cossacks game, right? as in this game is also made by the developers of cossacks and american conquest
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| Nowy | Date: Thursday, 02/April/2015, 9:46 AM | Message # 5 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
Messages: 320
Status: Offline
| Yes, that was the case. You already started a thread where you can continue discussion about Asian ancient factions.
Here Cossacks fans can express their whislist to future Cossacks III game which should stick with Cossacks timeline.
Therefor I add more details to my wishlist sent in open post.
4. Strategic and tactical maps
Strategic and tactical maps should better represent different factions power strength and size of possessed territories.
More land and sea sectors, and some other elements which could make gameplay more interesting are necessary in the game.
So, I propose these things.
Strategic map could include:
* 70 Land sectors
Initailly contoled as fallows
Great Britain (6 sectors): London, Edinburg, Dublin, Birmingham, Bristol, Liverpool
France (8 sectors): Paris, Brussels, Marseille, Nanters, Touluse, Lyons, Strasburg, Mayence
Russia (8 sectors): Moscow, Minsk, Kiev, Riga, Vilna, Odessa, Rostov on Don, St. Petersburg
Austria (7 sectors): Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Klausenburg, Insbruck, Lemberg, Triest
Prussia (5 sectors): Berlin, Konigsberg, Breslau, Danzig, Stettin
Spain (6 sectors): Madrid, Barcelona, Gijon, Grenada, Grenada, Seville, Valencia
Ottoman (8 sectors): Istanbul, Angora, Athens, Belgrade, Bucharest, Sofia, Damascus, Kishiniev
North Germany (3 sectors): Dresden, Hamburg, Hannover
South Germany (3 sectors): Munich, Frankfurt, Stuttgart
Noth Italy (3 sectors): Milan, Turin, Venice
South Italy (2 sectors): Naples, Rome
Poland (3 sectors): Warsaw, Poznan, Krakow
Egypt (2 sectors): Cairo, Alexandria
Batavia-Holland (1 sector): Amsterdam
Denamrk-Norway (1 sector): Copenhagen
Sweden-Finland (2 sector): Stockholm, Helsingfors
Swiss-Helvetia (1 sector): Zurich
Portugal (1 sector): Lisbon
30 sea sectors
1. English Channel
2. Irish Sea, St. George and North Channels
3. North Sea, north west part, east from Scotland
4. North Sea, south west part, east from England
5. North Sea, south east parrt, close to North Germany
6. North Sea, spouth part, close to Batavia-Holland
7. North Sea, east part, close to Denmark
8. Skagerrak, Kattegat, Sound and Danish Straits, North and East from Denmark
9. Baltic Sea, west part, close to Sweden
10. Baltic Sea, south part, close to Prussia
11. Baltic Sea, east part, close to Russia
12. Atlantic Ocean, part close to Ireland and Scotland
13. Atlanctic Ocean, part close to France
14. Atlantic Ocean, part close to North Spain
15. Atlantic Ocean, part close to Portugal
16. Atlantic cean, part close to South Spain
17. Mediterranean Sea, west part from Gibraltar to Malta
18. Mediterranean Sea, north part, close to South France
19. Mediterranean Sea, east part, close to Turkey and Syria
20. Mediterranean Sea, south east part close to Egypt
21. Mediterranean Sea, south part, close to ALgeria, Tunis, Trypolis (Barabry States and Ottoman dominions)
22. Balearic Sea, close to Spain
23. Ligurian Sea, close to North Italy
24. Thyrrenian Sea, close to South Italy
25. Ionian Sea, close to South Italy
26. Adriatic Sea, north part close to Austria
27. Aegean Sea, close to Greece, Ottoman domain
28. Sea of Marmara, Dardanelles and Bosporus, Turkey
29. Black Sea, south part, close to Ottoman domains
30. Black Sea, nort part, close to Russia
Factions initially can control sea sectos close to their land sectors or key strongholds or naval bases.
They can control sea sectors using their warships. Controlled sea sector alow fishing and overseas trading.
20 Key dockyards and naval bases
Great Britain: Chatham, Deptford, Portsmouth, Plymouth, Woolwich, Glasgow
France: Brest, Toulon
Russia: Kronstadt, Sevastopol
Austria: None
Prussia: None
Spain: Cadiz, Cartagena
Ottoman: Istanbul, Smyrna
North Germany: None
South Germany: None
North Italy: Venice
South Italy: Naples
Poland: None
Egypt: None
Batavia-Holland: Texel
Denamrk-Norway: Copenhagen
Sweden-Finland: Karlskrona
Portugal: Lisbone
10 Key strongholds
Initially controlled as falows:
British (2) : Gibraltar, Malta
Italian (2): Cagliari, Palermo
Russia (2): Kronstadt, Sevastopol
French (1): Antwerp
Prussian/Polish/French (1): Danzig
Spanish (1): Cadiz
Swedish (1): Stralsund
30 significant fortresses
France (2): Lille, Strasburg
Russia (2): Riga, Smolensk
Austria (2): Olomoutz, Petervardein
Prussia: (4): Glogau, Graudenz, Kolberg, Kosel
Spain (4): Badajoz, San Sebastian, Saragossa, Valencie
Ottoman (4): Istanbul, Silistra, Shumla, Ruschuk
North Germany (2): Erfurt, Magdeburg
South Germany (1): Ulm
North Italy (2): Genoa, Mantua
Poland (2): Modlin, Zamosc
Egypt (1): Alexandria
40 significant trade ports
Great Britain (6) : Bristol, Glasgow, Liverpool, London, Nwecastle, Southampton
France (4): Bordeaux, Le Havre, Marseille, Nantes
Russia (4): St. Petersburg, Riga, Odessa, Taganrog
Austria (1): Triest
Prussia (1): Stettin
Spain (4): Barcelona, Cadiz, Cartagena, La Coruna
Ottoman (3): Istanbul, Smyrna, Tripoli
North Germany (3): Hamburg, Bremen, Lubeck
North Italy (2): Genoa, Venice
South Italy (2): Livorno, Naples
Poland (1): Danzig
Egypt (1): Alexandria
Batavia-Holland (2): Amsterdam, Rotterdam
Denamrk-Norway (2): Copenhagen, Alborg
Sweden-Finland (2): Stockholm, Goteborg
Portugal (2): Lisbon, Porto
Message edited by Nowy - Thursday, 02/April/2015, 10:13 AM |
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| kirjasbeltran | Date: Sunday, 05/April/2015, 7:30 PM | Message # 6 |
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Viscount
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| How about if european war wagons are included, similar to the one that is used by germany in aoe 3. It is a 4 wheeled variant, can create formations independently, and does not require the use of any standard bearer or any similar unit? Added (05/April/2015, 7:30 PM)
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Additional info in regard to the ancient(roman, Greek, barbarian) and/or the Asian setting; this game can serve as a spin off from the cossacks games
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| Nowy | Date: Tuesday, 07/April/2015, 9:36 AM | Message # 7 |
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Marquis
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| Any ancient or modern periods are out of Cossacks timeline. So, future Cossacks III wishlist could not include such settings.
Other games of course could include what ever you wish, even Medieval or fantasy. However it is hard name them Cossacks.
I can add next details to my wish list.
Skirmish maps should include more realistic elements. Bigger and transparent maps should represent local characteristic features and variable weather conditions. These could include such things:
- Adequate landscape = streams, rivers, lakes, marshes, coastlines, plains, mountains, valleys etc.
- Buildings = all buildable and destructable, including varaibnle bridges, ports, dokyards etc.
- Local fauna and flora elements = variable grass, bushes, trees, forests, animals, livestock
- Realistic food production = farms, fishing, pastures and crops harvested only in proper time
- Resources = wood, stone, iron, gold, coal gathered by workers and stored in shops
- Rivers and canals = some local waterways accecible for boats, barges or ships transport
- Road system = land roads and foot paths allow move faster men, animals and vehicles
- Sea lanes = overseas trade needs sea ports, ships, naval support and open sea lanes
- Settlements = buildable and destructable villages and towns with regional buildings
- Seasons of the year = winter, spring, summer and atumn characteristic landscape
- Weather uncomfortable conditions = rainy, muddy, dusty, frosty, snowy, cold or hot times
- Winter = cold time, no harvest, food only from stores, wood or coal needed for heating
- Spring = changeable weather, possible muddy roads, boggy ground, little food in stores
- Summer = harvest time, accessible ground and roads, but possible dusty conditions
- Autumn = food in stores, poorer road and ground conditions in rainy or cold time
Message edited by Nowy - Tuesday, 07/April/2015, 10:03 AM |
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| MR_BUCI | Date: Thursday, 09/April/2015, 5:40 PM | Message # 8 |
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Knight
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| I suggest tactical varieties
Buildings
- Walls (U can locate soldiers on it)
- redoubts
- better towers (can be built in walls as well as stand alone)
- blockhouses
Field buildings
- wooden spears (to protect from sudden cavalry attack)
- protection to artillery
- temporary bridges
Sappers build such buildings
Villages
one could choose the profile for village:
Military - high defence (more policemen, defence buildings, protection to packhorse) ability to create cavalryman
low population (low resource gathering speed, slow soldier creating speed for squads, slow recovering from enemy attack)
Non military - high population (high soldier creation speed, high resource gathering speed, high recovering from enemy attack)
low defence, cant create cavalryman
Soldiers
squads in "kare" (square) position can move
squads in "kare" position are effective against cavalry, more durable and dont loose morale
several squads can join in one "kare" to protect several artillery and generals
120 units squad can be divided into small units to attack several small objects simultaneously
every building is destroyable
forests burn under cannon fire and recover later
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https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC5fhMp3vQAjxUqY27WD3Tyg
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| Nowy | Date: Friday, 10/April/2015, 6:54 PM | Message # 9 |
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Marquis
Group: Users
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| Thanks for your substantial post. I already lost hope that there are members which can discuss on merits.
You expressed interesting suggestion. I can agree on many things, however there are some hard things too.
For instance.
Soldiers on walls are hardly locate in the game. Wooden spears are fine, however it were very rarely used at that period.
Redoubts, blockhouses, protection to artillery and temporary bridges are welcome. However there are few difficulties too.
Your profile for villages are more disputable.
More policemen, defence buildings, protection to packhorses do not improve defence.
I believe that regular soldiers should defend key villages, policemen could only guarding and supporting them.
Like in real life policemen ususally were in troubles when they tried struggling with regular soldiers.
Ability to create cavalrymen in villages is strange idea.
Cavalrymen needed more training, therefore they needed cavalry barracks and stables.
I suggest that only millitary buildings could create all regular soldiers. Then reinforcements in small squads could march from there.
Villages could create only workers and policemen.
Low population, I mean less workers, would be fine.
However resource gathering speed, soldiers creating speed for squads and recovering from enemy attack cases exist in C2 and these are acceptable. We should remember that speed is important for fluent gameplay. Slower speed in these cases is bad.
High population it does not mean only higher creation speed.
Sometimes more military and economy buildings even with low speed can create more soldiers, gathering more resources or recover more squads.
So, more buildings, however smaller in scale and less dateiled, would be good. I can add my proposition for buildings later.
Squads in "kare" holow square were hardly movable, because it was hard to keep order.
Slow move in "kare" was possible only in suitable conditions. Nevertheless for game purpose slow "kare" move could be acceptable.
Squads in "kare" position were effective against cavalry and that aspect is recreated in C2. However it needs few improvements.
Especially cavalry charge on "kare" formed by veteran infantry in suitable conditions. Nevertheles young, inexperienced, weakened or tired infantry can loose morale in "kare".
Several squads can ceate one "kare" in old Cossacks games.
Simply few squads in line or column formations can stand ground close to each other and this way they can create specific "kare".
Quote 120 units squad can be divided into small units to attack several small objects simultaneously
This could led to troubles, too much small units sub-squads could operate simultanously. We should take into account that players could create 20 or 40 big units squads. I am affraid that too much small sub-squads could inflict too big chaos. However small sub-squads companies can operate together as one big squad. I tested such case in modded C2 game.
Quote forests burn under cannon fire and recover later
This is interesting idea. However I prefer when solid cannon balls can break some trees. Cannon fire can not burn all forest, however can break or cut some trees. There were lot of cases when even small forests gave fine defensive cover for soldiers e.g. Battles of Ekmuhl, Raszyn, Borodino etc.
So, cannon fire in the game could break few accidental trees, even burn few old, dry trees, but can not burn all forest.
Message edited by Nowy - Saturday, 11/April/2015, 2:55 PM |
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| kirjasbeltran | Date: Sunday, 12/April/2015, 7:20 PM | Message # 10 |
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Viscount
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| how about having the ability to build more than 3 blockhouses?
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