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Forum moderator: Daddio, EbelAngel  
Forum » Cossacks II » Modding » Random Map Generator
Random Map Generator
DaddioDate: Friday, 31/July/2009, 9:30 PM | Message # 1
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I have been testing the Random Map Generator and the maps are great!!

Of course the AI will need to be adjusted, and so also will the ability's of the troops, namely fatigue, But the biggest problem I see with it is that the maps are too small, or troops too large, ether way.

Often the generator will build each camp close to each other. the first one to get out troops will win.

This is something that should be addressed.

Thanks,

Daddio


http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg
 
EbelAngelDate: Friday, 31/July/2009, 11:04 PM | Message # 2
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Yeah, good point Daddio,

I presume you tested with 5 or 6 nations when you say they are too close, or was that with even less players?

I'm still learning how it all works, in that what you have been tested is very close to the original set up, which is already there with the default installation. I have mainly done subtle changes, eg starting resources, starting pieces, etc...

I'm still tweaking how it works with the layers, for example where it will put the starting pieces ( such as stone mines, gold mines etc...)
Many more samples will be needed to give it a more random look , rather then a repetition of the current samples.

The version you have been testing generates always the same type of trees for example, which i have already changed to more different trees ( more oak etc...) in a later version.

I'll have a look in to the position it puts the players starting peasants on. I also noticed that with the lack of samples ( only 2 stone mines have been setup inside the first layer) that the AI will build its first townhall near it, so it should have more stone mines and closer to the initial starting point aswell so the ai doesnt loose time by walking to the nearest stone mine.

I also noticed it sometimes generates the mines too close to eachother, and if you have those coal mines which are rather large on it, it leaves no space to build on the other mines, again an issue with not enough layers been set up. I'll have a look into that aswell.

The main thing i have focussed on up till now, was adding the interface for it and that it didnt give a defeat message on start up. There is not just gonna have to be a lot of work done to make it playable, but an immense lot of work to get it working properly. And then we havent even tackled the AI or other issues that come with this.

About the size of the maps, I'm pretty sure that there is a maximum limit to it, if i do it manually from within the map editor trough the CTRL+E options, the maximum surface stats i get is 15315x15315. I checked with Alexander and Haoe and its the same there, so I think there is little hope to get larger maps than that, this must be hardcoded in the engine. And even if we get gsc to change it for us, i dont think its a good approach, because it will inevitably cause lag, just think how hard the x16 ( huge) maps can lag in Cossacks I, once there is a large army on it.
I can only suggest to play with no more then 4 players on it, 6 or 7 will give problems.
The only way to increase building and play space, is by making sure as little as possible water is generated with the maps and all map space should be buildable or accessible. So as little mountains as possible, etc...
The difference with the original skirmish maps is in that, with the original skirmishes , the resource villages take up more space then needed really, because you got these buildings around the mines, etc... a issue you dont have with the random generator.

It's gonna take a lot of work and testing to get everything balanced, not just how it generates the maps but aswell regarding buildings, mines, troop production etc...

more things come to my mind, but thats for another time

Thanks for your feedback Daddio

Regards


 
DaddioDate: Saturday, 01/August/2009, 5:41 AM | Message # 3
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Take a look at troop size in alexander, and compare to C2, I think you will find the troops in C2 are larger. That is I think why the maps in Alexander "seem" larger than they are.

If we could reduce the size of troops in C2, the you will have bigger maps!! surprised

Daddio


http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg
 
EbelAngelDate: Saturday, 01/August/2009, 6:57 PM | Message # 4
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Yes indeed, the troops but aswell the buildings are smaller in alexander.The maps are indeed the same size, but seem larger because of this .The maximum size is hardcoded for all games that use this engine.

Rescaling the units is a possibility, but would be , how shall a put it , quite a lot of work. I dont really think rescaling the units is a good idea, I think the buildings are too large and take up to much space. I'v imported a unit from alexander and they are only a head shorter really. Its those buildings in C2 that are really so consuming when it comes to space.

Don't know Daddio, without help, I think we got a dead duck in the water here, I mean it looks like its moving, but it really is the water that is moving and not the duck.

I mean, 10 new people registered in the last week, but look who's talking here, its just you and me really, and those that do leave a message in either the guestbook or chatbox are crying for pics and stuff and lots-of-them, you know the stuff. What are we all doing this for actually?

I must be having a bad day or smth, dont know really


 
DaddioDate: Sunday, 02/August/2009, 4:31 PM | Message # 5
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Well, The random map generator I think is pretty low on the list for items needed to fix, But having fun is the most important thing, this is our hobby, and finding out things, and making them work is part of that fun.

When it stops being fun and starts being work then its time to back off for a while.

If others want to see it, then give some looks with an explanation of its short comings and challenges.

Are you getting C2 players asking questions?

Because we could use some testers for the map pack.

Hang in there young lady, you are doing a great job.

Daddio


http://i1045.photobucket.com/albums/b455/Billy_Jo_Patrick/cossacks2_art_03_zpsel8tgwad.jpg

Message edited by Daddio - Sunday, 02/August/2009, 4:33 PM
 
EbelAngelDate: Monday, 03/August/2009, 6:58 PM | Message # 6
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Perhaps you'r right,

Maybe I had a bit of an overdose of Cossacks stuff lately, and should keep low for a while. I'll get back to it.

Thing is, I'm usually very lazy and work best when people ask stuff or suggest things. On my own little gets done. All of the stuff on the site, is the result of people asking me questions in the past years. Still got a lot of stuff to upload, but whithout feedback, it's a bit demotivating.

Oh well


 
OC_DavoutDate: Saturday, 28/August/2010, 7:19 PM | Message # 7
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Quote (Daddio)
Well, The random map generator I think is pretty low on the list for items needed to fix, But having fun is the most important thing, this is our hobby, and finding out things, and making them work is part of that fun.
When it stops being fun and starts being work then its time to back off for a while.
If others want to see it, then give some looks with an explanation of its short comings and challenges.
Are you getting C2 players asking questions?
Because we could use some testers for the map pack.
Hang in there young lady, you are doing a great job.
Daddio

I disagree.

 
[hwk]poppenDate: Saturday, 28/August/2010, 7:25 PM | Message # 8
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davout! i havent seen a post form you in forevor. how ya been? ( even though u dont know me lol)





Non progredi est regredi
 
OC_DavoutDate: Saturday, 28/August/2010, 7:47 PM | Message # 9
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Quote (|hwk|poppen)
davout! i havent seen a post form you in forevor. how ya been? ( even though u dont know me lol)

I am good thank you smile
 
[hwk]poppenDate: Saturday, 28/August/2010, 8:10 PM | Message # 10
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i added you on msn so hopefully we can talk, would be interesting to talk to one of the first cossacks modders.





Non progredi est regredi
 
Forum » Cossacks II » Modding » Random Map Generator
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