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Forum » Cossacks II » Modding » New buildings
New buildings
aiidiiDate: Saturday, 28/June/2014, 9:58 PM | Message # 1
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Has anyone ever created some new buildings for Cossacks 2? Something that could be used as a neutral building not affiliated with any nation in particular?

What I'm looking for are buildings that can't be captured and destroyed. Just eye candy like palaces, administrative buildings, etc...

I've made a map with buildings from many nations and set them to neutral but they can still be captured and destroyed. So I went and changed game files and made them undestructable and uncapturable. I've then tried that map on a version of a game without file changes to see if those settings stick to the finished map. They don't


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NowyDate: Monday, 30/June/2014, 1:10 PM | Message # 2
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Hmm, I wonder why you want more neutral, undestructable and uncapturable buildings on relatively small maps?

In C2 exist so many neutral buildings and other elements which of course could looks nice, but it spoil too much battleground areas.
It it is quite fulish when any cannonball or other explosive materials can not destroy them and nobody can not capture such buildings.

I think that all buildings should be destructable and capturable, how it was in C1 game. That was more relistic and gave more free area for combats.

Undestroyable buildings in wargame are useless. They only could looks nice sometimes, but that is all.
There are more things which could make maps more pretty and more playable.

If you want to make maps more pretty, make them more accurate to real topographic conditions.
Now hills, rivers, lakes and other elements many times looks unrealistic. However terrain in C2 looks more detailed than it was in C1 or AC games.

Think more about destroyable objects e.g.
- wooden or pontoon or trestle or foot bridges which were commonly used at that era
- siege trenches and breaches in fortification walls, which were normal siege techniques before besiegers can attack on fixed fortifications
- villages buildings which in real world were destroyable and capturable many times, but in the game they are not
- towns buildings which were burned as like in Moscow, Smolensk or Poltsk.
- fortified towns which were put under destruction as like Saragosa etc

Destroyable buildings and other objects are more attractive in war game.


Message edited by Nowy - Monday, 30/June/2014, 1:24 PM
 
aiidiiDate: Monday, 30/June/2014, 1:19 PM | Message # 3
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Well, the editor is easy to use. I'd love to see and play a map made by you with more accurate/realistic conditions.

We all have different tastes. I have yet to experience your vision on a finished map.

Teach me, Oh Great One.


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NowyDate: Monday, 30/June/2014, 1:36 PM | Message # 4
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Do not be funny, I am not the Great One, I am not a map maker too.
However I know enough about Napoleonic Warfare, battlegorunds and other things which are really important in wargame.

Only nice looking undestructable buildings in RTS Cossacks games are quite useless.

That is not a case of different tastes.
That is a case about RTS wargame and not about nice looking, but clearly unrealistic screens from vacations in unreal world.B)


Message edited by Nowy - Monday, 30/June/2014, 1:37 PM
 
aiidiiDate: Monday, 30/June/2014, 5:45 PM | Message # 5
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I'm not trying to be funny. I really would like to play a map you design. I play every map I can get my hands on. You're all theory in a lot of topics. We've yet to see it in practice. There are editor manuals available as well as already existing maps to modify and learn. All talk and no play makes Jack a dull boy.

But tell me, how do you propose to manipulate the game files so that villages destroyed using scorched earth tactics during a tactical retreat would be rebuild later in the game after a successful counterattack? And how much time are you willing to invest personally in achieving that?


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EbelAngelDate: Tuesday, 01/July/2014, 7:31 AM | Message # 6
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So regardless of wether its a new building or not, what you want to do is have a building to be temporary out of a players control? ( not being able to destroy / capture) ? And it cant be a mod, in that it must come with the map itself? Did i understand that right?

I'm fairly certain the only way to do this would by setting up a script trough the mapeditor. For example create a zone around said building with particular conditions that turns the building to a 3rd party state or neutral side and when other conditions are met return the building back into player control. A script would come with the map and not be a mod. I must say i never really expored the battle editor in depth, because its somewhat a complex menu inside the editor.
I know you are thinking if its a 3rd neutral state they can still be destroyed, but it could be a non playable party, that is allied,and hence wouldnt be able to be destroyed or called up on when wanted and removed when needed. It probably would be somewhat complex to setup such script, but it would be the first thing i'd look at if i wanted to do such thing.
Dont know really, getting rusty tongue


 
aiidiiDate: Tuesday, 01/July/2014, 9:08 AM | Message # 7
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Quote EbelAngel ()
So regardless of wether its a new building or not, what you want to do is have a building to be temporary out of a players control? ( not being able to destroy / capture) ? And it cant be a mod, in that it must come with the map itself? Did i understand that right?

Yes. It must come with the map.

Quote EbelAngel ()
I'm fairly certain the only way to do this would by setting up a script trough the mapeditor. For example create a zone around said building with particular conditions that turns the building to a 3rd party state or neutral side and when other conditions are met return the building back into player control. A script would come with the map and not be a mod. I must say i never really expored the battle editor in depth, because its somewhat a complex menu inside the editor.I know you are thinking if its a 3rd neutral state they can still be destroyed, but it could be a non playable party, that is allied,and hence wouldnt be able to be destroyed or called up on when wanted and removed when needed. It probably would be somewhat complex to setup such script, but it would be the first thing i'd look at if i wanted to do such thing.

The buildings should not be able to be captured or destroyed at any time. Like the buildings from the GorAus submenu. But the buildings themselves must come from the nations lists. Town centers, academies, dwellings, etc.


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Message edited by aiidii - Tuesday, 01/July/2014, 9:09 AM
 
NowyDate: Tuesday, 01/July/2014, 9:54 AM | Message # 8
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Quote "aidii"
I'm not trying to be funny. I really would like to play a map you design. I play every map I can get my hands on. You're all theory in a lot of topics. We've yet to see it in practice. There are editor manuals available as well as already existing maps to modify and learn. All talk and no play makes Jack a dull boy. 


Sorry, but you are funny when you cast such suggestions to me.
Why you still ask about new designed maps from somebody, who is not a map maker and how you can call somebody a dull boy?
It's really funny.

I've written that I am not a map maker, however I know something about Napoleonic Wars and can cast my opinions about Cossacks games.
I like these games, but I would like to see some real improvements and fixes which allow play these games in more realistic way.
Therefroe I can discuss even about theory.

You really can not understand that before you start make a map, you firstly should think about their theoretical conditions.
More undestructable and uncapturable buildings on relatively small maps can only spoil this game. Can't you see this?

Quote "aodii"
But tell me, how do you propose to manipulate the game files so that villages destroyed using scorched earth tactics during a tactical retreat would be rebuild later in the game after a successful counterattack? And how much time are you willing to invest personally in achieving that?


In C1 games all buildinga and mines were buildable and destructable, and I think that was not a problem even in scorched earth tactics.
Then why in C2 game players can not build, destruct and renovate villages builldings?

I'm not a programmer and can not tell you how you could do it, but in older C1 and AC games it worked well, then why in more modern C2 it can not?

Personally I invested a lot of time in theoretical research, how RTS games as like Cossacks could looks or how it can include more realistic features.
I've changed myself some UnitMD files in C2 BfE on my computer. In some aspects it works much better now. However it is only small step in right direction.  Problem is that I expect more general improvements, bigger than small modding things.  Fot these features good modders team including professional programmers would be wellcome to.


Message edited by Nowy - Tuesday, 01/July/2014, 10:01 AM
 
EbelAngelDate: Tuesday, 01/July/2014, 8:14 PM | Message # 9
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Well if it cant be a mod, there wont be any new buildings then eh. And you'll have to spend some time trying to figure out how to get a script running.
I dont really have time for it now, but if you have specific questions or run into problems, function wise or parameter wise, do ask! I probably have parameters decriptions somewhere, i should look if needed.

Nowy.... prof


 
NowyDate: Wednesday, 02/July/2014, 8:22 AM | Message # 10
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EbelAngel what are you taking about?
What a proof?
 
If you thought about UnitsMD changes you could read this thread
UnitsMD changes in C2 BFE
 
If you meant new buildings, mods, game projects or general theory of RTS games, there were other threads in these matters too.
 
However these discusions stopped and any real conclusions done.
 
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