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@Bzik
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| EbelAngel | Date: Sunday, 11/December/2011, 7:37 PM | Message # 1 |
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Hello, Ebel Angel.
The user "Bzik" from the website "Cossacks I & II Information" has sent you a letter.
Letter text:
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Angel I've just read thread started by Nowy and just reading section of tips for C2 modding. Im quite shocked that C2 is so moddable:) Its great that you figuread out
how to add random map mode, lack of it was one thing that pust me off from playing C2.
I started modding first Cossacks, but after reading all this informations new idea comes out. Simply - enabling old classic 17-18th warfare on C2 engine!
I've read that you are modding C2 with intent of adding best things from C1. On Nowy thread lot of guys wants only war improvement, but I'm from opposite camp.
I like cossacks becaues of its logic - final sucess is builded step by step. Ist simple equation [(Big economy=big army)+(efficient economy=best upgrades)
+battle tactis]=WIN. I also like managment part, player who can handle both parts is the one who win. Backing to idea. IMO there is lot of players
who still loves cossacks1 style but hates lack of C2 economy part. Thinking that its possible to create MOD which combine C1 vibe, C2 visual efects+warfare
and even adds something fresh.
There is one possible problem: technical barrier. Do you think it possible for modders(or totally amateur modders like me:)
to implement things from C1 like:
- first and foremost: conversion of units from C1 to C2
- 2 modes: patrol and guard
- changing size of formations (adding/decreasing number of units in squad)
- all kind of academy/barracks upgrades
- adding sea units
- walls and palisades
If you looking for some basic help with your mod, let me know. Incidentally I can learn something for myself:)
PS. I like your attitude. Its better to be quiet and release full test version only when its ready.
Greets
Bzik
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User's data:
Date: 11/December/2011, 2:46 PM
(Just reposting your letter so I can quote from it here below)
Quote - first and foremost: conversion of units from C1 to C2
Yes, it is possible, I had a tool specially made to make this process somewhat easier. I have already converted AC buildings and got them ingame.
Converting from C1 is the same process.
It must be said, a complete conversion off all units/buildings would be a lot off work. And when the graphical conversion is done, then .md and .nds files need to be setup/checked.
Quote - 2 modes: patrol and guard
I have experimented with this and managed to get a patrol button in the interface trough the dialogseditor and made it functional. However so far only on single units, I haven't found how to get it to work on formations (since they are differently handled than single units). More tests are needed. The guard functionality I havent tried out but I assume it is similar, a change in the interface needed & testing of the functionality.
Quote - changing size of formations (adding/decreasing number of units in squad)
Yes this is possible , trough changing the .nds [OFFICER]section ,orders.lst and ordersgroup.lst.
Quote - all kind of academy/barracks upgrades
Yes this is possible, I already got a bunch off upgrades in various buildings for both economy and military upgrades. But I still need to finetune the actual % bonus they give for a better balance. As it is now resources are gained to fast and the military upgrades are overpowered.
I believe this is possible, since there is a frigate already ingame that actually works. It would need graphics though, ie boats from whichever game (C1, AC). Ships arent much diffferent from normal units, just some strings in the MD files.
Quote - walls and palisades
Yes, but again graphics are needed. Im unsure which way to approach though, the old system as in Cossacks 1, where walls are stored in a .gp file or proper .c2M files for which there is an editor available in game( As has been used in Alexander, that game has proper walls which can be manned by soldiers). Again, lack off graphics, but the setup shouldnt proove to be too difficult as I know the engine supports it.
Quote There is one possible problem: technical barrier. Do you think it possible for modders(or totally amateur modders like me:) to implement things from C1
Yes ofcourse. I'm no pro-modder either, if I can do it, you can too. It however takes a lot off time and experimenting, learning how the files work together, but since you already have some experience with Cossacks 1, it surely is a good bases to start from, because Cossacks 2 isnt that different from Cossacks 1 ( .md, nds,...) just a lot off new things in it.
Quote On Nowy thread lot of guys wants only war improvement, but I'm from opposite camp.
I like cossacks becaues of its logic - final sucess is builded step by step. Ist simple equation [(Big economy=big army)+(efficient economy=best upgrades)
+battle tactis]=WIN. I also like managment part, player who can handle both parts is the one who win. Backing to idea. IMO there is lot of players
who still loves cossacks1 style but hates lack of C2 economy part. Thinking that its possible to create MOD which combine C1 vibe, C2 visual efects+warfare
and even adds something fresh
Couldnt agree more. Most off the suggestions in nowy's thread are (ironically) not realistic in terms off modding or would take far to much work to even consider implementing for very little result ( ie fixing graphics of uniforms in terms off having the 'right' color,...)
As you have noticed , Cossacks 2 is far more moddable than Cossacks 1, not just due to the open format, additional editors that are inbuild but as well a far easier changable AI, one that doesnt require advanced C++scripting knowledge to create a new ai.dll.
There are however backside's aswell, things that are missing, eg, no peace time, no huge maps,...) These things however could be fixed in the source off the engine, which I possess, but that requires skills which I currently don't posess.
There's much more to be considered when transforming Cossacks 1 into Cossacks 2, but this should give you an idea off what to consider.
If you are indeed willing to do this and or help, then let me know what you think, ask questions, ...
Regards
E.A.
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| Bzik | Date: Sunday, 11/December/2011, 8:59 PM | Message # 2 |
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Baron
Group: Checked
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| Lady, you're hiding here some delicious cookies:) Looks like C3 is finally on the way. I must say I admire how much work you put already in this project. And with this words: "Get the goodies from Cossacks I & Cossacks II together" you just read in my, and lot of other cossackers mind:)
Quote I had a tool specially made to make this process somewhat easier. I have already converted AC buildings and got them ingame.
Converting from C1 is the same process.
You talking about process described in "C I Conversion to C II" section? Ill try to experiment with C1/C2 conversion, any additional tips or everything I need to know is already in your article?
Quote Yes this is possible , trough changing the .nds [OFFICER]section ,orders.lst and ordersgroup.lst.
I'm aware of that, but I'm more interested if you are able to change squad size ingame (C2 interface matter?), so from group of loose 196 infantry units you can create small formation(36), medium(72) or use all of units in 196 man formation. Its crucial thing in C1.
My question - what is your view of final version of mod? You want to merge 3 centuries in one big "sceanario" just like in Imperia, or you want to give posibility to play or 16/17th century or in Napoleonic era? To be honest I mostly prefer the first period because of transition from "pike nad musket" to bayonets and all economic management effort related.
I have few pages of ideas I wanted to implement to C1 but this is a secondary matter. If you need help with this project I'm all yours.
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| EbelAngel | Date: Monday, 12/December/2011, 8:05 AM | Message # 3 |
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| Quote (Bzik) You talking about process described in "C I Conversion to C II" section? Ill try to experiment with C1/C2 conversion, any additional tips or everything I need to know is already in your article?
Correct, I tried to describe in as much details as possible the steps to follow, though I should read it again to see if it is accurate. It's been some time since I converted anything. Past year I haven't had much time to mod, only restarted again a couple weeks ago after reinstalling all tools.
Quote (Bzik) I'm aware of that, but I'm more interested if you are able to change squad size ingame (C2 interface matter?), so from group of loose 196 infantry units you can create small formation(36), medium(72) or use all of units in 196 man formation. Its crucial thing in C1.
A bit like this as I understand:
When you click on a create formation button it shows you the available amount off units possible to form a formation from. Never mind the amounts currently displayed ( 36, 72, 120), it will show whatever is setup for that formation in the parameter files ( nds, lst,..)
&
It also seems to work when , in this case for the sapper , only formations off 15 are possible, it will only show that amount then.
Never mind the unfinished state off the current interface ( showing a small icon on top in the old formation button,etc...), it's because I havent looked into changing it yet. I haven't disabled it yet because I kinda like it when that icon lights up when you have enough units to create a formation. Probably should change the background drop so it fits the small icons better. I also need to set up an nds file to allow for multiple formations to check it all properly but I haven't gotten around to do that yet.
But the important thing is the action is present in the interface editor. It's a matter off adjusting the parameter files ( graphics, nds, lst ,potentially some .md's too)
Quote (Bzik) My question - what is your view of final version of mod? You want to merge 3 centuries in one big "sceanario" just like in Imperia, or you want to give posibility to play or 16/17th century or in Napoleonic era? To be honest I mostly prefer the first period because of transition from "pike nad musket" to bayonets and all economic management effort related.
Admitted, I prefer the Cossacks I epoch over the Cossacks 2 epoch aswell. But for now I havent made a final decision on it yet, mainly because, I'm trying to see how far I can go on this engine. See how much off the playstyle off Cossacks 1 I can get into C2, nevermind whichever units/epoch it is, because in the end, its just the graphics that determine the look off the epoch.
Eventually, I will have to make a choice.
Setting up multiple centuries , as in Cossacks I, isnt hard really, it boils down to adding an upgrade which on its turn gives access to new buildings and units and upgrades.
What has to be considered however, suppose one would add Cossacks I units and buildings to Cossacks 2 and set up, say 3 centuries, 2 from Cossacks I and allowing to go into the Cossacks 2 period, is the difference in size off buildings.
You will noticed that Cossacks I buildings are a lot smaller than the Cossacks 2 buildings. I will look for a screenshot but couldnt find one straight away now so you will see for yourself. In my opinion, the Cossacks 2 buildings are seriously oversized,which on its turn adds to the 'small' map feeling.
It is however possible to change the size off the Cossacks 2 buildings ,make them smaller, so they fit better in with Cossacks I, because admitted, some off the Cossacks 2 buildings are nice looking. Doing that however would require some work, because the graphics need to be unpacked and repacked with a different scaling option and then the .md files need to be adjusted so it recognizes the smaller buildings.
Quote (Bzik) I have few pages of ideas I wanted to implement to C1 but this is a secondary matter. If you need help with this project I'm all yours.
Don't be shy to share. I'm always interested. Though I havent explored the game entirely yet, I have a good idea off what is possible and what isnt.
In return can I ask you some questions?
Can you go online with Cossacks 2 ( do you have a serial key to play online?)
How much time are you willing to put into modding Cossacks?
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| Bzik | Date: Monday, 12/December/2011, 10:19 PM | Message # 4 |
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Baron
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| About formations - indeed. Screens looks very nice. Im glad that there are defence icons (sword, pike etc).
Well, the idea of 3 centuries in one game never speaks to me. Its too much IMO. I just cant imagine pikemans from 17th century baracks fighting against Napoleon's Old Guard Grenadiers...
I've never checked architecture of 17/18th century but what do you think about leaving most of original buldings for all countries already present in C2:BFE? I see no problem in training 17th century French pikemans in bulding from your screen. But I may be wrong. And yes, if there is a big difference, buildings should be a little smaller. I really like BTW graphics of Hungary, Switzerland, Piedmont etc. who knows, maybe those buldings will fit nicely to those in C2. Only Ukraine has TERRIBLE buildings. And thinking it was Cossacks game:)
Quote Can you go online with Cossacks 2 ( do you have a serial key to play online?)
I didnt bothered to buy original version, becuse GSC abandoned online project, dont they? Right now I have "back up" polish version of C2-BFE. Earlier I didnt play much in C2 because of already explained gameplay reasons.
Quote How much time are you willing to put into modding Cossacks?
I dont wont to waste words but I'm really excited with this idea and I can put all my free time in this project. I also have lot of work in real life so I cant say how many hours a week, but I'm willing to help you as much as I can. I strongly believe that combination of C1 gameplay and C2 engine should be a killer and its worth to spend time on it. Such mod could gather again old guard of cossackers and give lot of fun for new players. Hope you believe same.
Quote Don't be shy to share. I'm always interested. Though I havent explored the game entirely yet, I have a good idea off what is possible and what isnt.
No problem, I will write my ideas, and most of these things are quite possible to implement. For example, one of ideas that pass my mind week ago was speed of infantry units. We got different speed of horses, so why not infantry? I wanted to change it in C1. So light infantry units like those half naked guys from Algiera should be fastest, and guys with full armour (heavy pikemans) or grenadiers - slowest. In C1 terrain was not interactive, so it was only matter of speed of reinforcements. But C2 offers more - marshes etc which already slows down infantry. I even thinked of some upgrades (decresing weight of armour or something like that) which allows units to move faster. Propably in some manoeuvres of bigger armies or chasing soldiers from broken formation speed of moving makes difference... Of course all that parameters should be realistic, balanced and properly looking in game. Just a thought for consideration:)
Regards
Bzik
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| EbelAngel | Date: Wednesday, 14/December/2011, 0:18 AM | Message # 5 |
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| Quote (Bzik) I didnt bothered to buy original version, becuse GSC abandoned online project, dont they? Right now I have "back up" polish version of C2-BFE.
The servers are still running.
One thing though. Im not working on C2 BFE, I'm working on C2 NW, mainly because there are more people with that version.
Quote (Bzik) Well, the idea of 3 centuries in one game never speaks to me. Its too much IMO.
Agreed, its too much.
Quote (Bzik) We got different speed of horses, so why not infantry?
It's a good idea. I'm not sure however if the movement speed can be affected by the regular NDS upgrades. Build speed for sure, but dont remember seeing movement speed.
There is however a secondary upgrade system that isnt used, the UnitAbility Editor. Havent fully explored that one yet though but as I recall , one can change the movement speed there.
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| Bzik | Date: Wednesday, 14/December/2011, 8:15 PM | Message # 6 |
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Baron
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| Hi,
I created first g2d files of english pikeman from BTW Baddog Mod. I leaved BTW original file names. In Triangulator the national colour shows blue, while C2 original units are bright green. At this moment dont know where error is. I used your tip about switching national colour to blue in GigaPack, but cant check if its work. I'm not enough familiar with C2 files - tried to switch files with russian pikeman in UnitsG17 folder, without effect, in editor there was still russian unit, maybe you can do this succesfully and check if everything is correct in game.
Most of files corresponds to each other, so for example PIENGG.gp and RusParG.g2d - letter G is for normal walk in both games. As you know C2 has additional animations like first row attack in stand ground mode etc. It will be nice if we can remove those animations from game without errors, its rather easier than create new animations for C1 units:)
Here's link to pack with both g17 and g2d files. If you have time, please check if its OK. If yes, I'll start to convert other units from BTW, you have permission from GSC to do this, right?
http://www.filesonic.com/file/4221436225/EngPike.rar
I need more time to translate idea and my vision of gameplay, will add something from time to time.
Angel, last question - we can play against each other via internet if we have different language version? Is it only matter of engine version eg. 1.2?
Cheers,
Bzik
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| EbelAngel | Date: Thursday, 15/December/2011, 2:43 PM | Message # 7 |
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| Quote In Triangulator the national colour shows blue, while C2 original units are bright green. At this moment dont know where error is.
This is normal. This happens when you extract .gp files. The national colour always turns blue.
More about that below
First:
Quote but cant check if its work. I'm not enough familiar with C2 files
Well, I could give you a version with a testnation in where you can add units to test with in, and I eventually will, but then you still haven't learned for yourself.
I don't mind checking converted units, but its important that you can do so yourself and test your own changes or progress will be slow.
Quote tried to switch files with russian pikeman in UnitsG17 folder, without effect, in editor there was still russian unit,
This is not a good method, because simply switching graphics is no guarantee they will show up in game because further down in the MD file there are strings which refer to the frames off the unit. If they are different for the russian pikeman and the one you tried, then it will be a noshow.
It is better to use the original MD files off the converted unit and adjust that one, because it should already have the correct references to the graphic frames. It would be just a matter than off changing certain parameters which dont fit in Cossacks 2 '(icon,...)
Quote It will be nice if we can remove those animations from game without errors,
Another reason why the original md's should be used to start with, if the animations arent defined, they wont show.
Quote its rather easier than create new animations for C1 units:)
Indeed, it's completely impossible without the original 3D models from which the frames have been rendered.
Quote I need more time to translate idea and my vision of gameplay, will add something from time to time.
Ok, take your time, but I still will want to see, just to be sure we are on the same page.
Quote we can play against each other via internet if we have different language version? Is it only matter of engine version eg. 1.2?
Yes, doesn't matter which language the game is, french version can play with english and german,... as long as the engine, and to be more precise the hashed bracketed version is the same ( the numbers appearing in the [ ] in the main menu.
Text file's dont affect gameplay and wont cause synchronisation errors ( except for nmlist.txt,which is the only exception as I believe, but that one doesnt relate to language.
Quote If you have time, please check if its OK.
I will do so.
Can I ask how you proceeded? Which color settings did you use that it still stayed blue? ( R: G: B:)
Did you import .tga 's directly into triangulator? As I recall you can import .G17 aswell.
I havent tried out much units yet and will have to read up again and try for myself to see exactly to get it right and I will do so shortly.
I also believe that the engine can handle units in .G17 format , so untill they are working graphically correct ( right national colour), dont waste your time on running them trough triangulator.
Quote you have permission from GSC to do this, right?
Yes, I do have permission as long as its not to gain any profit from it.
Back on topic:
So I looked at your .g17 and .g2d files. They show up nicely in gigapack and triangulator so you seem to have done pretty much everything right. Thats a good thing
Indeed the national colour is blue. Then I extracted the baddog mod and picked the MD file from the pikeman.
I copied it, I cloned it, I renamed it, gave them an existing icon in the md file and I added it to a test nation.
EngPike.MD and EngPike2.MD. The first one referring to the .g17 files, the second one referring the the .g2d files
When starting up the game, i got an error about @MOTION LB0 and @MOTION LBR not being a correct animation.
So I disabled those 2 lines for now, because I will have to check in the animation codes which is the correct Cossacks 2 string to be used ( there's quite a lot off them and I cant tell by head)
The units , both(g17 and g2d) show up fine in the editor, except for the national color.
(see ss)(the one on the left is the g17, the one on the right is the g2d)
Next thing i noticed was that they didnt move. So I had to add following string to the MD file:
MOTIONSTYLE SINGLESTEP
This will have to be added to all units because thats how C2 knows how the unit moves. There are more off these motionstyles but more about that later.
Reloaded the game , placed 2 colours and they started fighting instantly (see ss).
Everything seemed to be just fine, so I'm not entirely sure what those 2 disabled animation codes are for(probably the charge animation). But I will try to check anyway
Sizewise it's not to bad either. They are a little bit smaller than the C2 units but not much ( see ss)
So, one thing to do left and thats fixing the national colour.
I first tried using the national colour options in gigapack (which seemed to work fine for buildings when i tried it ( not national colour but options-convert settings-national colour)
see ss, at R0 G60 B192
However, when trying them in game after packing, it seemed that it only semi worked. (see ss)
There was still some blue present and you only see the national colour on high contrast colours ( orange, green,...)
So I took a .tga to photoshop to analyse the colour. It would seem that after extracting a .bmp there is more than one blue present. A lighter and a darker blue around the edges.
Now, since you can only setup 1 national colour in gigapack this is somewhat a problem. It doesnt look too good in game with only half the blue converted.
So I had to try out a different way. I'm not sure if you have seen this tool already, but recently it surfaced again, its called BMP Regenerator, its a somewhat more advanced version off the russian palitra tool.
I'm gonna assume here that you still have you'r extracted .bmp's from this unit.
After extracting the .gp, you will want to start up the BMP regenerator , load up the first .bmp image, delete the prefix ( otherwise you have to rename your lst file inside)
Then select the 'swap colour option', then tick blue in the original colour and 'green' in the new colour.
To batch process all extracted files within the .gp folder use the File Limits options set to 0 - 179 ( in this case there are 180 frames in the .gp folder)
You will have to manually check everytime how many frames there are and adjust for each animation ( B, G, H,...)
(see ss):
It may seem unresponsive, it means its busy.
When it has finished, you will see the .bmp's have a green colour as national colour.
Then, proceed as you have done before, use the BMP to TGA converter to bind the new .bmp and the alphachannels into a 32bits single .tga file.
Check the .lst file's ( I assume you still have them)
Then fire up GigaPack, do as you have done before, except this time, before hitting the convert button, go to Settings-->ConvertSettings-->Click on national Colour:
Click on ">>Define Custom Color" Set to R:0 G:255 B:0. Click on "Add to custom Colors", Click on your new green on the left. Click Ok
(Make sure you deleted the line to Palette:C//gparch blablabla. Tick minimal square size:8 and hit OK
(see ss)
Then press convert. Make sure all other options are set, P3, scale 1, untick paletted image,...
Now, when I tested this, the units stayed green , no matter what national colour i picked in the editor.
(see ss)
This was one 2 hour long test that failed royally. But in failing I'v learned something new.
You can actually change any colour off the uniform by doing this and create 'new' looking units.(Eg turn red uniforms blue,...) Which is nice and could provide a bit off variety.
I assume that the green i picked in the gigapacker options wasnt the green from the bmp's so I'll have to test which colour it exactly generates
So next thing i tried was trying out the tolerance option in the bmp regenerator, instead off leaving it at 100, i set it to 0 and that created a black colour. After looking in photoshop it was set at
R:22, G:22 B:22 and I couldnt find any deviation in the colour anymore.
So i used those settings in gigapack for national colour.
The result in the game editor was rather, how shall I say, funny. Every thing black that came close to R22G22B22 turned into national colour aswell ( hat, tip off pike,...)
(see ss)
So, it will take some more experimenting with the colour options to get it right. Perhaps you can try aswell, I'm sure that you understand by now how to change it , its just we need to find the proper colour settings. I havent figured out the BMP regenerator tool entirely yet, there are a lot off options that I havent tried and unsure how to use them. Time and testing will tell.
First one is hard to get right, then it will be easy.
In attachment below you will find alink to the files I have experimented with so you can see for yourself. There is a readme inside on how to get those files working in game.
EngPike is the .G17 you made. EngPike2 is the .g2d file you made. EngPike3 is the g17 I experiemented with ( from last exp)
A couple off additional notes, on which I'm not sure I have written them down on the site yet:
As you have noticed, converting units its gonna be quite a lot off work, so try to automate as much off the process or use batch processes.
- For example, in order to extract the .gp files, you need to rename the .GP extension to lowercaps .gp else it wont extract the bmp's.
Rather than doing this manually, use the CI_Batch_File_Renamer in link below. ( see ss)
On the third tab you can change the extension. It will do it in less than a minute for all files in that folder you specified. Should save you some time
- If you want to determine the colour settings ( RGB) fire up photoshop, increase size, use the drop tool click on an image pixel and read off the colour settings ( RGB) in the right top
(see ss)
- Use notepad++ ( see link below). Its a slightly more advanced version off notepad. Use it for .txt files, .lst files, .rsr, .xml , .nds and .md files.
It will show the line's off code in case the engine spams an error in the MD file with the corresponding line, you will find the errors faster.
It also opens .h and .cpp files, which you dont have but I might give you some later with additional information on the game ( settings, options, possible parameters,...)
- Naming: If you convert, use logical naming. In the case off the english pikeman, name the g17 "EngPike" . A 3 letter digit for the nation origin,(France :Frn, Holland :Hol, etc) and the full name off the unit, keep the animation codes as they are ( "EngPikeB", "EngPikeH",...)
If needed, a 17th pike would be "EngPike17B" , and an 18th pike "EngPike18B" .This will help later in setting up the md's. And the same goes for the MD files, naming them properly, rather than the weird names they have in Cossacks I. I spent too much time trying to figure out which units are which in Cossacks I when I explored it.
Especially for setting up NDS files it helps that you dont have too think too much but just know the name off the MD without having to look at it.
- In GigaPack you can convert multiple animations to g17 at once. Save as XPR (project setting), so in case you have to redo because off colour errors you just load up the xpr and change what is needed without having to reset all options.
- Back up frequently. Work on copies rather than original files. Try to keep as much files as possible ( extracted .bmp's, converted .bmp's,.G17, ...) I know it can be consuming in GigaBytes but if you can handle it, try it. When you make errors you will be glad to have originals to fall back on rather than having to redo things.
- Don't bother about triangulator for now. Just work to gigapack. I'd also like to keep all units in g17 as a backup even if they are converted to triangulator later, because once's in .G2d format they cant be extracted anymore if needed but .g17's can and they dont consume too much space.
- One more thing, then I'll stop (;-)). I'm not sure but I think with your modder status you have access to the file manager on the site. Top panel ( Control) File Manager.I'v set up a folder with your name. Feel free to use it if you need to upload files rather than using filesonic or whichever host that gives me spam, adds and waiting time.
I believe the maximum file size is 10 MB. Use .rar to compress for size and when it are images use .jpg.
If you cant access it, tell me.
Well that was a long post , but think i'v said everything I had to say for now.
DOWNLOAD ME:
http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/load/gp_regenerator/1-1-0-385
http://notepad-plus-plus.org/
http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/BZIK....LER.rar
http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/BZIK/ENGPIKETEST.rar
Regards.
E.A.
Message edited by EbelAngel - Thursday, 15/December/2011, 2:56 PM |
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| Bzik | Date: Friday, 16/December/2011, 5:22 PM | Message # 8 |
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Baron
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Messages: 43
Status: Offline
| Thanks for detailed post. During weekend Ill try to solve national color problem.
Quote Can I ask how you proceeded? Which color settings did you use that it still stayed blue? ( R: G: B:)
Did you import .tga 's directly into triangulator? As I recall you can import .G17 aswell.
(R:0 G:60 B:192) just like in article.
Yes I imported frames into Traingulator, g2d was created automatically.
UPDATE: When I try to add units how you described it, I've got error:
Nations\Editor\MASTERTEST.NDS Line 35 :[COUNTRY]: Invalid monster ID :[ENABLED]
But dont waste your time for thinking about this, I messed a little with England.nds file and sucesfully added unit there. First impressions: C2 units are a head taller, so it may look a bit weird if combined together with C1 units. Also there is no attack move animation (pike down, ***B. g17) despite g17 files are in proper places. I need also to check where error is.
I briefly looked at C2 files, need time to get familiar with them, but already saw few interesting details - text files with description of STORM_I_HINT or OPPOSIT_I_HINT, or peace time option from C1 in start.txt, looks like some of this features might be available to implement.
Quote You can actually change any colour off the uniform by doing this and create 'new' looking units.(Eg turn red uniforms blue,...) Which is nice and could provide a bit off variety.
At least good news for Nowy:)
OK, heres a few of my ideas about trading & resources.
MARKET TRADING - IMO market is integral part of game. But there must be done crucial changes with cutting reverse trading size. In my view all Cossacks economy should be gold oriented. So no matter how much stone you have, you'll never get lot of gold in exchange. I can't really call "strategy" fact that big mercenary armies are founded by few guys with pickaxes... But if you own mines and have enough gold you can for example, buy lot of stone and extend city. Also, it will be great if we can implement scale of trading related to city population. So big cities - big deals, small cities - small deals. If you have only few peasants, there are limits in quantity of resources that you can exchange on market (maybe per xxx GT?). The more peasants in population the smaller limits and bigger trading possibilities. So if player have 300 peasants, and other 400, there should be huge difference in their capabilities of trading and same time in city development speed or even timing of military upgrades. Nonetheless in "resource gathering" game trading should be helpfull only in certain situations.
RESOURCE GATHERING - rate of wood and stone collection could be slowered down as another step in prevention from trading useless materials for those valuable on massive scale. Instead of late game crazy automatic trading of 100000's w/s for food/gold/iron/coal, gameplay should be switched to trading more of gold-food-iron-coal, so resources equally important in warfare (I write about this later). Its simply enforce strategic thinking while buying/selling. If player have enough coal to exchange it for gold, means that he's good at mine management. If not, he's risking deficiency in case of shootout. Fair enough deal for me:)
The prices and coefficients could be reworked and based on access to resources:
1. Wood is easiest available resource. Sawmill is only building where wood can be stored. Also sawmill is place for wood gathering upgrades.
2. Stone is more rare. Instead of few groups of small stones, create big quarry in few places of map (just like mines) and add relevant building, where stone can be collect. It will be also place for upg.
3. Food is third, can be collected only in mill.
MINING - mining system combined from both games. One should build mine at source and put peasants into it + decide about upgrades and defence. Resource is delivered by packhorses to main city storehouse. As in C1 you can easily control mines near base. Routes are short so can be protected by regular forces from city. More distant mines - bigger risk of not only capturing but also raids on packhorses. So its possible to start little resource war and try to weaken enemy economic power. Opportunity to do this depends on terrain. Secondary thing to consider is a size of load in particular transport. If we got lot of packhorses (with lets say 200 resource each), in case of enemy attack, before our counter, loss of few of them is't that bad. Bigger amount in one transport (lets say 5000 each packhorse) may be hurting for economy and demands some protection on transport route. Maybe its possible to add some escort pikemans&musketeers to every packhorse instead of lonely peasant? Also I see main city storehause, limited to 1, which colect resources from packhorses + wood/stone.
In C1 its easier to put hundread of upgraded woodcutters and after some time systematically trade for coal, than fully upgrade mine and take care of it within the game. So another idea is to add more peasants to work in mines. For example change 1st upgrade to +20 peasants, with extraction efficiency of full filled mine slight better than C1 1st up. Reason: at start one have to decide what is his strategic resource, and in which mines set upgrades first. Next, if we can create gameplay focusing on warfare resources in mature game, there is no need of flooding map with hundreads of wood/stone workers. Needed workforce will flow smoothly from w/s gathering to mining, and new peasants will suply only this branches of economy. There are more benefits, instead of simply destroying opponent mine it will be more profitable to try capture fully upgraded object with hundread workers inside. On the other hand loosing full upg mine may cause change of whole strategy, so every player need to be prepared for worst case scenario.
In some way it covers my idea of non-linear economic development. In this example on map with water players can choose in early game - to build more strong land forces (more man power in iron mines), or put more workers to gather matherials enabling fast creation of fleet (wood). I'm a opponent of all written in stone Cossacks strategies and simplifications (upgrades right off the bat in mines of every kind, swarming mercenaries etc). Each map should be challenge not only in terms of battle tactics but also economy.
MILL - Thinking of little graphic changes : field geometry not square but rectangle, mill at top of field. Crops can be gathered only in mill. Max 10-20 peasants should work effectively on one field. More mills at city outskirts are vulnerable for raids (famine causing war tactic possible). Adding posibility to burn fields by opponent archers and same time possiblity to rebuild field squares by peasants. Posiblity to enter mill (just like in AC), so workers can hide there in case of raid.
Regards,
Bzik
Message edited by Bzik - Saturday, 17/December/2011, 2:52 PM |
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| EbelAngel | Date: Wednesday, 21/December/2011, 2:29 PM | Message # 9 |
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Site Administrator
Group: Administrators
Messages: 996
Status: Offline
| I missed your edit(update) in last post. I just noticed you edited it last saturday.
If you edit, please do it at the bottom of the post, but preferably, just add a new post it will show up as a new message then for me and I get a mail notification of it. Because I can't check all posts wether they have been edited or not.
Quote UPDATE: When I try to add units how you described it, I've got error:
Nations\Editor\MASTERTEST.NDS Line 35 :[COUNTRY]: Invalid monster ID :[ENABLED]
Hehe, my fault. Please see to MASTERTEST.NDS and look for following line:
[COUNTRY]
MASTERTEST 6
And change the 6 into a 5, because there are 5 lines to be read and not 6. Since it says 6 now, it thinks [ENABLED] is an MD file, which it isnt ofcourse.
Should work then.
Quote Also there is no attack move animation (pike down, ***B. g17) despite g17 files are in proper places
Indeed, as I stated in previous post:
Quote When starting up the game, i got an error about @MOTION_LB0 and @MOTION_LBR not being a correct animation.
So I disabled those 2 lines for now, because I will have to check in the animation codes which is the correct Cossacks 2 string to be used ( there's quite a lot off them and I cant tell by head)
&
Quote
Everything seemed to be just fine, so I'm not entirely sure what those 2 disabled animation codes are for(probably the charge animation). But I will try to check anyway
That animation is clearly for the charge. Since I disabled it, it wont show.
I havent had much time to mod this week and last weekend, but what I did do was read the source code for all MD and NDS strings in an attempt to gather more information on them and for (possible) parameter usage.
I will look into this issue as soon as I have finished writing down everything new I have learned.
Quote I briefly looked at C2 files, need time to get familiar with them, but already saw few interesting details - text files with description of STORM_I_HINT or OPPOSIT_I_HINT, or peace time option from C1 in start.txt, looks like some of this features might be available to implement.
Ofcourse, take your time. Read and ask questions. No need to try out things if I already know the answer.
On average, text files dont really do anything, except put text in game, in any language.
For example if there is a string in the interface named:
@MID::NATIONS::FRANCE
Then without the textfile's it would show up ingame as "@MID::NATIONS::FRANCE"
If however there is a text file saying following:
@MID::NATIONS::FRANCE France
Then ingame it will show up as "France" in game.
Or if the text file says
@MID::NATIONS::FRANCE Frankreich
Then it would be for a german translation.
So text files dont really do anything. On top off that, its not because there is a text file in game referring to interface strings, that those strings are actually present or actually active. Because GSC is notorious for sloppy/lazy programming.
What they did was build AC on top of C1 and build Alexander on top off AC and build C2 on top off Alexander and build HoAE on top off C2.
That means you will find Cossacks 1 text files in American conquest, you will find text files from American Conquest in Cossacks 2, you will find Cossacks 2 text files in HoAE.
They just copied and worked from there.
And its not just with text files, there other files like this aswell. Or functions are present but there are no files.
See this is how I figured out the random map thing. In Alexander there are random maps, but not in Cossacks 2. However from the source code I could see that the functionality is active, so it was just lacking the parameter files and the setup for random map generation. It can be a lot off trial and error to get things to work sometimes.
Anyway, back on topic:
The peace time options in that text file are from Cossacks I indeed, but the random map options in Alexander /
Cossacks 2 use different interface strings. So I dont think those text strings can be used at all for random maps.
As a matter fact, the whole random map setup is differently approached in Cossacks 2. As you may or not may have read already on some off the hidden pages, rather than using .dat files for random maps, C2 uses .xml files with a more complex landscape terrain generation setup.
I can tell you more about it if you like. I have a lot off information that isnt really written down on the site yet.
I cant remember now what the STORM_I_HINT or OPPOSIT_I_HINT are for. Are they from American Conquest? I assume they refer to the MD strings STORM, CANSTORM, STORMFORCE, OPPOSIT,... and then put interface (I) hints on them.
Even so the MD's can handle those strings, it doesnt mean its usable as interface text. The dialogeditor needs to have such function to link it up to the MD file. I will look if its present or not.
I hope that made sense.
Quote In my view all Cossacks economy should be gold oriented. So no matter how much stone you have, you'll never get lot of gold in exchange.
Well the exchange /trade values should be changed in economy.txt to accomodate for this. Shouldnt be too hard.
Quote rate of wood and stone collection could be slowered down as another step in prevention from trading useless materials for those valuable on massive scale. Instead of late game crazy automatic trading of 100000's w/s for food/gold/iron/coal, gameplay should be switched to trading more of gold-food-iron-coal, so resources equally important in warfare (I write about this later)
Yes, I actually had that on my to do list I think, because right now resource collection goes a bit fast imo. It can be changed trough some various MD strings on the peasant , mines , and .RSR settings. RESSTAGES, PORTION, Have to be carefull though that it doesnt go too slow at start so it doesnt take half an hour to get a few buildings up.
Quote 1. Wood is easiest available resource. Sawmill is only building where wood can be stored. Also sawmill is place for wood gathering upgrades.
2. Stone is more rare. Instead of few groups of small stones, create big quarry in few places of map (just like mines) and add relevant building, where stone can be collect. It will be also place for upg.
3. Food is third, can be collected only in mill.
That's easy enough to do. [RESOURCEBASE] md string handles this.
Quote [MINING - mining system combined from both games. One should build mine at source and put peasants into it + decide about upgrades and defence
Yes!! I'v already done this (partially). I added mines to the peasant build menu in the NDS and added upgrades to them. Still need to balance them out ( price wise, upgrade time, amount...)
I also still need to balance out how much mines (of each type) are generated on random maps, and where exactly they generate. It is set up in radius around the starting position.
I will write down more details on how its setup for now ( where the mines generate now, some close, some mid distance, some far from base) and on which start option.
Maybe you can write down how you see this ( how much mines where, how far,...)
Quote Maybe its possible to add some escort pikemans&musketeers to every packhorse instead of lonely peasant?
That actually may be possible. I havent looked into it, but as I understand, the packhorse with the peasant is considered a "COMPLEXOBJECT" and is defined in Data\ComplexObjects.xml. It's a somewhat confusing file and need to investigate it properly, but if a peasant can be added to follow a packhorse, I see no reason why (a) soldier(s) couldnt be added. Its a good idea.
Quote Also I see main city storehause, limited to 1, which colect resources from packhorses + wood/stone.
Not sure if I like this one. I can see problems with it on random maps. Even though I can pretty much control resource generation, right now its setup to spam multiple stone quarries on various positions on the map.
Why do you want this? Can you elaborate what you mean with "main city storehouse"?
Quote So another idea is to add more peasants to work in mines. For example change 1st upgrade to +20 peasants, with extraction efficiency of full filled mine slight better than C1 1st up. Reason: at start one have to decide what is his strategic resource, and in which mines set upgrades first
That's easy enough to do. See balancing mine upgrades above.
Quote Thinking of little graphic changes : field geometry not square but rectangle, mill at top of field
I have no idea if this is possible. Perhaps the answer lies in the FIELD.MD and MILL.MD. The field is considered a separate type off sprite, there are 3: 2D, 3D and patch, the field is a patch. Thats all I know about it.(for now)
Quote Adding posibility to burn fields by opponent archers and same time possiblity to rebuild field squares by peasants.
Good idea, not sure if its possible. Need to look into it.
Quote Posiblity to enter mill (just like in AC), so workers can hide there in case of raid.
Already thought about this one myself. It's easy enough to do. [PEASANTABSORBER] string in the MD file.
Have you tried or had any luck with the national colour issue? Any findings regarding to that matter?
I'll have a look again myself one off the coming days aswell.
Thats all for now.
Regards.
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| Bzik | Date: Wednesday, 21/December/2011, 10:19 PM | Message # 10 |
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Baron
Group: Checked
Messages: 43
Status: Offline
| Hi,
Quote Have you tried or had any luck with the national colour issue? Any findings regarding to that matter?
I didnt want to bother you during weekend, but I ecountered some major problem. Everything works fine until I used Regenerator for first time. I switched colours exactly with your instructions, than I tried to create g17 i GiGaPack but it shows me two errors, one atfer other: first Gigapack error: "Palette file C:\GpArch\12298\agew_1.pal is not found" and next Windows Error "acces Violation at adress 04148... bla bla bla". Also when I tick box in "projects item" row in Gigapack, it not showing particular tga files in "frames" row.
I tried lot of things - extracting new gp, converting to tga without Regenerator, downloading again GigaPack etc or even creating folder selected in error message and pasting .pal file and nothing. Maybe those errors tells you something? I'm stucked here and little pissed because I dont have even chance to try anything.
Quote I can tell you more about it if you like. I have a lot off information that isnt really written down on the site yet.
If you want to share some ideas or succeses with random map I'm all ears:)
STORM_I_HINT or OPPOSIT_I_HINT - Yes, I assume its from AC, in text files it refers to strength of units inside building and strength of units storming building.
Quote Maybe you can write down how you see this ( how much mines where, how far,...)
Well it depends if we want to make game fair or make game more real.
In first option we got three mines like in C1 in similar distance from starting point. Than lets say one/two "free" mines of each resource for every player at more distance from base. So classic C1.
In next option we still got those three basic mines, but other "free" mines are generated in random locations. So it may happens that two gold mines will be relatively close to one player. It definitely add some strategic value (fight in ceratin area for deposit) but danger is obvious: imbalance.
I need to think more about it. If i come up with something I make some drawnings to be clearer.
Quote Why do you want this? Can you elaborate what you mean with "main city storehouse"?
Ok, I explain.
Function of this storehouse is to gather all resources from mines and prepared food from Mills. So if packhorse come to storehouse, proper amount of resource is added. For wood/stone we got new buldings with function of collecting wood - sawmill and something for stone, lets call it for now "brickyard". As we now at one resource place about 30 peasants work efficiently, so If you want to sent additonal workers to other distant quarry you need to build another brickyard. Same with sawmills. The catch is in cost - if you want more stone/wood, you need to pay for those economic buildings, and cost is a lot higher than cost of simple storehouse from C1. Why one storehouse? To avoid building storehouses just in front of mines. I think that idea of packhorses and fact that they needs some safe way before resource can be used is great and adds some unique spice to gameplay.
Cheers!
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