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Forum » Cossacks II » Modding » @Bzik
@Bzik
EbelAngelDate: Sunday, 08/January/2012, 9:50 PM | Message # 51
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Quote (Bzik)
Its best visible if you compare doors of some buildings of C1,AC to FraCen

True, the door is too small.

This is the largest reduction option in GigaPack ( scale 2) (50%).

So it will be a photoshop job then. If 100% is too large and 50% too small, perhaps 75%?(or 70, 80?) I will experiment with it later this week.

Quote (Bzik)
But wait with those flagbearers. Who knows maybe we come up with idea of completely new unit, and then that kind of help will be more than needed.

Yes ofcourse, but I will ask him first if he is willing to do so, then later we can see what exactly it is we need.

Quote (Bzik)
Prussian grenadier - he have blue outfit, so all conversions ends in total mess.

Yes indeed I just looked him up in the baddog mod. I will think about it aswell.


 
BzikDate: Monday, 09/January/2012, 7:36 PM | Message # 52
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Hi!
BTW icons
Please check if everything is OK on your side. If you see any defects on icons tell me, I fix it.
Quote
So it will be a photoshop job then. If 100% is too large and 50% too small, perhaps 75%?(or 70, 80?) I will experiment with it later this week.

Do you know maybe is it possible to edit in photoshop also C2 units?

Added (09/January/2012, 6:39 PM)
---------------------------------------------
I made quick comparison in Corel. First pic is original buliding, next about 30% larger and last almost 100% bigger.
Buildings
If every C1 building file must be reworked for C2, then we can make buildings little larger. All depends on achieved quality and how they will look in 3d terrain in game.

Added (09/January/2012, 7:36 PM)
---------------------------------------------
Ok, here are OCmod flags, this is best what I can get from my samples. Tomorrow I will look at Baddog mod.
link

 
EbelAngelDate: Monday, 09/January/2012, 7:38 PM | Message # 53
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Quote (Bzik)
Please check if everything is OK on your side. If you see any defects on icons tell me, I fix it.


Units and ships and cannons look very good. Thanks!

On cavalry , there are a few discrepancies, folliwing frames have a different size:
Cavalry:
- obrazek4 ( cuirassier) : 64x62
- obrazek5 ( 17th drag) : 64x62
- obrazek6 (18th drag) : 64x63
- obrazek 7 ( hussar): 64x63
- obrazek16 ( swe guard) : 64x61
- obrazek20 ( sich cos) : 64x62
- s ( swe rider): 64x61

Could you fix those to 64x64 please?
Then I will implement them.

Quote (Bzik)
Do you know maybe is it possible to edit in photoshop also C2 units?

No, C2 units ( except 1:VesKGus) are in .G2d format, which is opened and extracted with triangulator trees.exe. Open one then press extract ( it will extract in the same folder as where the file is located, so copy it out on your desktop in a folder first).
You will see it will be in .wlr format and a few triangulated .tga's.
You can open a .wlr file to see specifications( with notepad) I believe it is VRML - 2 - UTF 8.
Even though there are tools to view this format I have never found one that can repack these wlr frames and tga's into a workable .tga or .bmp format. I'v looked and failed to find anything usable. Then again I have never asked around if someone was smart enough to make such custom tool.

Quote (Bzik)
I made quick comparison in Corel. First pic is original buliding, next about 30% larger and last almost 100% bigger.
Buildings
If every C1 building file must be reworked for C2, then we can make buildings little larger. All depends on achieved quality and how they will look in 3d terrain in game.


I'm surprised, that looks better than I expected. Not sure about the 100% ( is that with proportions constraint?), but ofcourse it's to be seen if the same quality can be achieved when packing them up in g17 and seeing it in game.
I will try this.
Right now I was looking at the Imperia C2 buildings , just extracted it all and grouped the MD's .I will compare to learn how it was achieved.

Either way, even if graphics succeed on a acceptable quality for either resizing C1 or resizing C2, it will still be a lot off work in terms off setting up the MD's.

What I did noticed, in game in Imperia, is that some units go over the top off the door ( like the plume off the hat on some units), in other buildings the born points are somewhat weirdly set, they dont come out off the door, but they are born outside off the building in front off the door ( e.g VesKaz). This is something you only notice if you start paying attention to the detail. I can image when you are playing you barely notice it because you are busy getting those raiders out off your village ;-)

On a side note:
I also noticed that, and I remember you mentionned this in an earlier post, that the C2 village buildings used in Imperia ( from the editor nations in C2 , SelFRaDom's,...) do not have build stages in Imperia. When you place them to build, you immediately get the final building stage while the peasants "build" trough the buildstages.
Its not entirely bad, just a little bit weird. If I recall correct, you were talking about "adding" building stages to some off these buildings. I noticed that in Imperia there are some .gp's with build stages for a variety off buildings ( just the buildstage, one or 2 frames) but they havent been implemented. I figure Awar wanted to add buildinstages aswell to some off these buildings but got stopped somewhere along the road, for whichever reason.

Next version:(1.2.1.0
http://www.gamefront.com/files/21167887/1.2.1.0+FILES.rar

Last large one for a while, from now on I will only add the changed files and use the 4th digit (eg.1.2.1.1, 1.2.1.2,....) to change the version number, which will mean if you do a fresh install you will have to instal 1.2.1.0 and then the next version on top off it(eg 1.2.1.1 on top off 1.2.1.0,)
Or you dont mind to download 300 MB+ everytime?




Message edited by EbelAngel - Monday, 09/January/2012, 7:39 PM
 
BzikDate: Monday, 09/January/2012, 8:34 PM | Message # 54
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I made those icons one again, heres cavalry pack:
Link
Angel, if you can tell me your email, maybe it will be faster to send files that way, what do you think?
Ill try to work with enlarging files from C1 gp, probably today Ill send you test files. Im curious what quality we can get with such action, need to check it today:)))
Quote
Or you dont mind to download 300 MB+ everytime?

Right now I have funny download speed of +-60kb/s from gamefront so its better if you upload small chunks. At this moment just compile files, and send big packs if we need to tests some new features.
 
EbelAngelDate: Monday, 09/January/2012, 10:10 PM | Message # 55
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Quote (Bzik)
I made those icons one again, heres cavalry pack:


Thank you. Packed them and implemented them.

Quote (Bzik)
Angel, if you can tell me your email, maybe it will be faster to send files that way, what do you think?


All the same for me, whatever works best for you:

inliner_3@msn.com (thats: inliner_3 [at] msn.com)

Quote (Bzik)
so its better if you upload small chunks


Here we go:(version 1.2.1.1)
http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/BZIK....ZIK.rar
To be implemented on top off version 1.2.1.0
(Added icons and a couple off buildings tests in Master Test)(see picture below)


^^On the picture
Austrian Barracks
The one in the back is the original from C2
The one to the left off the original is the original extracted and repacked with gigapack at scale 2 : 50% reduction (AusKazC250.g17)

In imperia I found 2 versions off this building a smaller and somewhat inbetween version. The smaller version is the one in front off the AusKazC250.G17. It is what seems to me a 58% reduction, clearly a photoshop job ( AusKazIM.g17)
The one to the left off AusKazIM.g17 is the other version I found in there. It looks a 73% reduction (AusKazIM2.g17)
Notice: different color in roof( not sure how or why, but thats how they appear in Imperia aswell)
Secondly, there is a difference in frame's.
The original C2 has 15 frames, the Imperia versions have 12 frames.(god knows why...-)
Clearly 50% is too small, but the 75% looks rather good.

Next thing I will try is increase the Austrian Barracks from C1 in size.

Side note: if you are bored, go trough the Nations in editor and see if all icons that have been implemented are the correct ones. I did a check already but so many icons, its easy to write a wrong number in the MD files. No rush with this, just if you go trough the nations for whatever reason and you notice an icon wrong, write down the name off the unit- building.

EDIT: i just noticed you edited a previous post at the same time I was posting my ^previous: I missed the MOD icons .I will implement them in next version.




Message edited by EbelAngel - Monday, 09/January/2012, 10:13 PM
 
BzikDate: Monday, 09/January/2012, 10:46 PM | Message # 56
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I emailed you with original english dip and one that I made in photoshop. I didnt do any additional actions than changing size. Its 50% bigger.
Ok, Ill also check nations in upcoming days.
Good night!
 
EbelAngelDate: Monday, 09/January/2012, 11:28 PM | Message # 57
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Quote (Bzik)
I emailed you with original english dip and one that I made in photoshop.


Received.

Implemented into MasterTest.NDS . Put them down in editor next to eachother and tell me your thoughts.

I'm going to toy around a bit more with buildings tomorrow.

+ added OC flag icons.

http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/BZIK....ZIK.rar
( to be pasted over 1.2.1.0)


 
BzikDate: Tuesday, 10/January/2012, 8:13 PM | Message # 58
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Hi, this is another part of my notes and brilliant ideas:)

- COMMAND CENTER. In some way I like C2 idea of reservits from captured villages. So I though that we can use something similiar. Player can build one CC (from C1). If some squad is depleted, player can position troops near CC, and slowly units will be added to squad just like in centre of village. Speed of this reinforcment should be decreased lets say 3 times in compariosn to barracks speed of creation. If im correct in AC series there was option with removing indian tenst from place to place? If yes maybe we can use it for CC, as frontline moves, also CC which will be last outpost before enemy. Maybe CC should have zone of healing just like priest. CC may be captured with some coal/iron bonus for winner.

- MERCENARY BROKE FORMATION - do they flee to diplo center and become available for future squads (untill that they still consume your gold), or formation break is equal to complete loss of forces, and they should change colour to neutral(hostile)?

- MILITA SQUADS - player can form early small squads of town milita, formed from pikes and muskets (mixed in one squad), size 30 units, only line(square?) formation with basic bonus, no flags etc. Good for early protection or in emergency situation to create fast reinforcement of soldiers from broken squads.

- Cavalry with lances more efective aginst pikemans than sword fighting cavalry. Same against cavalry with swords.

- Posibility to increase size of formed squad by adding additional soldiers, e.g. from 120 to 240.

- Experience points - shot accuracy bonus points for shooting units (based on killings by shoot or aggregate of all made shoots)?

- ROADS builded by peasants - fast transport of troops to frontlines or packhorses from mines.

- CANNON BATTERIES, formed lets say with 4 cannons. All cannons in battery are acting like one. So one order for whole formation to shoot with cannonbal or with canister. Fixed shooting sequence - on shoot after another with two second delay - in this manner canister shot should easily stop any size formation charging in front of battery. Maybe also adding reworked redbout for battery size (those are in C2 editor)?
While gaining experience (accuracy bonus also?) defence bonus against bullets? So veteran batteries very hardly to scare with salvo, flee possible mostly after seriuos melee fight.
Fixing bug - if cannon crew is killed just after they prepared canon for shot, new crew once again prepares cannon which should be ready for fire.

- Pikemans maybe more damage (historically they are cover against strong horses or sometimes against other pikes) but slower attack rate than swordmans and bayonets. Maybe fastest "stand ground" for them in line formation, they need to be prepared fast for quick cavalry charge and covering retreating musketeers.

- RED ZONE automatic firing (or adding autofire option on/off just like melee/only shoot). One of the comments on cdv forum which says what its all about: "In a turn based game you can do that. In a RTS game I think it's absurd to expect the player to be everywhere at once without pausing every 5 seconds to check every unit. Might as well make it turn based. ", Also inetersting comment" The range at which units open fire should be based on their morale and experience. 'Green' units should open fire early, average units at closer range and 'crack' units can hold their fire to optimum as their real life counterparts. All it needs is some decent AI. All units should tend to return fire once they are fired upon at whatever range they happen to be fired upon."

- BROKEN FORMATION - speed of comeback depending on experience of each soldier (so rookie without kills will be wandering a little longer). Mercenaries - quick comeback to diplo zone? Comeback to closest barracks or CC, if implemented.

- Archers - long range, but same as with muskets - accuracy depends on range of shoot. Effective only against unshielded units, easy to scare with salvo, smallest fear causing (or historicaly speaking - even no fear causing). Simply they should be weakest unit of game.

- STACKING!!!! Need to check if its possible to add blockpoints to units, so tighest formation - no pass, normal formation - ony two formations can stack one on other (pikes can come through muskets to cover them, or vice versa, musktes to make shoot between pikes)
also interesting davout post : http://forums.cdvusa.com/showthread.php?t=47145
This needs to be done, almost 50% od C2 complaints is about stacking. If everything fails there is always Friendly fire option, but still it didnt solve stacking of pikes etc.

- CAPTURE BONUSES - if certain object is captured, fixed amont of resources is transfered from player who lost object to a winner, its logical I think:) For example:
a) TOWN HALL - transfer of 70% of gold, 50% of food, 30% of iron and coal
b) STOREHOUSE - 30% wood and stone
c) MILL - 20% food
d) MINE - 20% coal / gold / iron (depend on captured mine)
e) killed/captured packhorse - size and sort of resorce delivered.
In early parts of game, capturing will be more profitable for economy, so it should encuorage more vattles than simple destroying.

- ADDITIONAL WINDOW IN TOWN CENTER (or ACADEMY?) - taken form current C2 academy or some new. Im talking about table where you see how many workers you have and how many squad/units. Also additional info about mines - for example - how many gold miners we have vs how many units consuming gold, with simple information how our economy is developing (e.g. lot mercenraies, small number of gold miners -> slow ratio of extraction, showing some info "Gold economy stagnation" or something like this. Coal/iron - number of shooters vs iron/coal available -> number of vollleys possible. etc)

- MERCENARY SHOOTERS/PIKERS - elite force at beginning with better accuracy/reloading/melle attack. Later in game after upg's its cheapper to create own units. So gameplay can converge with history, merc was popular in 17th century, later there was more national armies engaged in warfare (although it was matter of merc betrayals, not worse weaponry).
Also merc should consume ONLY gold! In C1 they eat food and use powder of player which is IMO inccorect feature. We should calculate all costs into gold. So if you're rich you can afford mercs, without worrying that Dragons blow all gathered for two hours coal in two minute shootout:)

- FEAR FACTOR - maybe we can add some new factors? Like fear of bayonets higher for 17century units or fear of cannonball, higher for unshielded units?

- TOWN HALL limits - what do you think about limiting TC to one city (so in order to build next TC, player should build at first all required buildings like academy, church etc., then he can create another precint or some outpost town), also barracks possible to build only in determined zone around TC. No need to build second barracks standing alone in plain meadow, I mentioned Comand Center idea, which can be pitched close to battle places, where you can automatically refill squads.

- STOREHOUSE - unlimited number, but only for gathering wood and stone. Food from mills and minerals from packhorses gathered only in Town center.

- ACTIVE EXPERIENCE BONUS SYSTEM - squad bonus is sum of single units experience (kills?) . So if we have squad mixed of rookies and veterans, and all veterans will be killed, squad status is "rookie". Now it will be trigger to raid escaping units to prevent vetrans from joining to new formations. Also its easiest way to add experience to chasing units (light cavalry mostly).

- Creating formations in zone around officer.

Thats it for now, tommorow I try to send you Baddog icons.
Take care!

Added (10/January/2012, 8:13 PM)
---------------------------------------------
I just checked buildings:
- 75% C2 Aus barracks looks best of course.
- C1 - well, no matter how you look at it, the original size at this moment looks best in terms of quality. We should change size but on one condition: acceptable quality. If there will be some pixel visible (especially at bottom of screen) we need to abort that, what do you think? In worst case scenario we leave C1 size and add different buildings in place of obvious flops like french house/blacksmith etc.
I would like to see bigger buildings but Im afraid we are narrowed down to miracles of photoshop filters... Need to check them.

 
EbelAngelDate: Wednesday, 11/January/2012, 6:35 PM | Message # 59
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Played around a bit with buildings yesterday, mainly to understand the MD strings involved. Did learn a thing or 2 but graphically didnt make any progress yet.

So today I fixed some things that were already ingame and some things we added to the game. (Details are in the log).

What I finally figured out was the LINESORT thing, at least why there were "holes" in C1 and AC buildings appearing.

See picture below:

For example on the STANDLO animation, each set off LINESORT parameters refers to the RLC frames.
So if
#STANDLO has say 3 frames, then in LINESORT #STANDLO there should be 3 sets off positions (each time xy & xy = 3 framesx 4(xy,xy)= 12 integers), which define a line.
You can see these lines in the editor if you press CONTROL+U ( the red one's)
For some reason, all C1 and AC buildings have these lines in the middle off the building.
If you reprogramm them to be under the building, the holes dissapear. I'm not sure why its different, maybe terrain is handled different in Cossacks 2. Anyway if you set them properly it seems to work.
Ofcourse it needs it for all LINESORTS on all #ANIMATIONS ( buildstages, death,...)
So its quite a bit off work , because you need to load up each .G17 in gigapack and read off the x and Y positions.
Done about 25% off the buildings now. Will do the rest in the coming days.

Fixed errors from loading.log related to sounds.

Added rifle functionality to the COS 1 grenadiers. They can fire now.
Put down some formations ( select a grenadier in the "P" tab and press CTRL, then place them on the map for quick formations)
There will be a lot more work to these grenadiers to get them fully functional in the MD's. And im not talking about balancing, just functionality.(grenades,...)

Changed the selpoint too, but havent looked into the miniweapons and defense icons, they display bad and with some very weird values.
Probably should disable them for now untill I have looked properly into it.

Next version:
http://www.gamefront.com/files/21172682/1.2.1.3+FILES+BZIK.rar

(Again to be pasted over 1.2.1.0, but you already knew that ;-) )

As to your idea's in last post , I will comment on them in the next days because there are some things I need to think about because I'm not sure if they are possible ( eg peasants building roads,...)

That's it for today, tomorrow is another day... wink




Message edited by EbelAngel - Wednesday, 11/January/2012, 6:38 PM
 
BzikDate: Thursday, 12/January/2012, 2:20 PM | Message # 60
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Damn, youre fast modder:)

You asked me about nations in some of previous posts. So Im thinking more nad more about it. IMO its very important to line up everything with historic accuracy and same time add something new. Even now I have some skteches in my mind, which nations and which units can make game more colorfull and add more fun for gameplay. Need to recall in details this stuff, I had history on matriculation exam but it was 10 years ago, so I forget most things:) So in short this is my plan:

1. Check all wars from 1600->Napoleonic Era. Specifiy all nations that we can use in mod.
2. One by one gather info about every army, and maybe, if available, some economic aspects for Academy purpose.
3. Check battles of every nation, gather information about units involved.
4. Make list of units (barracks/stable/diplo), check their atributes and role in warfare, and If available note additional info about units (in general and from every nation alone) - factors of morale, tiredness etc.

As you see Im thinking serious about making it not only playable but also, as much as its healthy, historically based. Including correct naming etc. I will report you with results so we can decide which nations/units will be implemented.
I will convert musketeers meantime.

Another thing that I think of lately. In my vision there are two things in C1 that spoils fun:
1. Cannons with invisible crew
2. Units without melee fight option.

First point I leave for future, about second - as far, as I can accept musketeers, its strange with dragoons.
Muskteers needs long time for reload, so their main task in XVII was firing salvos. Hand to hand combat was mostly role of pikers, to protect them against charging enemy. So at game level its quite acceptable. Morover on C2 engine it will be important part of gameplay: in XVII you need to learn how to fight with pikes/muskets combined in at least 50/50 proportion, in XVIII how to use strength/weaknesess of different units like new musketeers, grenadiers etc.
At fisrt dragoons was mainly infantry troops using horses for moving. Later in XVIII they evolved into normal cavalry. As wikipedia says
Quote
When in the 17th century Gustav II Adolf introduced dragoons into the Swedish Army, he provided them with a sabre, an axe and a matchlock musket: many of the European armies henceforth imitated this all-purpose set of weaponry.
IMO mod dragons needs to fight melee. So my ideas are:
- implement dragoons from other games
- create new units.
Focusing on first, easiest way, thera are few good samples to choose. We can use dragoons from AC (17 and 18 century) and even OC mod have english dragoon with sabre. Think about it - In C1 BTW (with baddog) we got only 8 diff types of dragoons in whole game! In AC alone we got 14 different shooting/melee dragoons (+officers and flagbearers), thats almost twice more. Why not use them? Even if we throw out those "tropical ones" with veil on cap its still plenty! We can experiment with changing colours etc. Only range horse units will be French Kings Musketeer and Tatar. What do you think? AC units just like C2 are visible bigger than C1, but I figured out that we can try to change size of bmps in photoshop, and then convert to g17. Ill check in photoshop how much in % those units are bigger and then correct them. Even more - in Ac there is lot of 16century old looking units, but there also lot of infantry from C1 period. Maybe we can use some of them also.



And last thing - I found interesting bug list on cdvusa forum, propbably you read it, theres lot of good points, mainly what players see bad in C2 gameplay. Also what bugs of engine setup should be fixed if possible (e.g. saving memory by leaving unnecesssary things allows more units).

Some posts:

Quote
1. "Don't know it it has been mentioned yet, but I want to be able to man fortifications!
It is so annoying having to reman a squad you position near a fortification to defend it from grenadiers, man the fortifications!
It could negate the fort's ability to fire cannon if you really think it is so unbalenced.
Personaly I think fortifications should be as powerfull as would be fair to make them. "


Like i said earlier, grenades/flaming arrows values should be lowered - if you want to wreck fortifications, you need artillery. In other cases for example you need some manouvre to avoid fire from tower. Small number of fortifications, maybe some upgrades, to make them really tough deal.

Quote
"And for god's shake these reloading times!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have counted the time(for infantry) and the result was:51 seconds!!!!!!!!

Well someone could say that reloading times are good in this certain game but that time exceeds every limit!!!!!!!!

i dont ask for a 10 second time reloading
just a normal 20-30seconds reloading time!!!!!!!!"


50 seconds with something its historically correct. For game purpose its need to be reworked, and tuned to acceptable values - with testing both starting value and when fully upgraded.

Quote
In XIX century infantry was the trunk of each army supported by artillery and cavalry. In MP C2 cavalry wins battles that seems to quite "ahistorical". I suggest to increase the role of artillery by decreasing power of cavalry.
It can be obtained in many ways, for example:
- increase the production time or cost of light cavalry
- increase cost of stables
- implement upkeep cost for horsemen"


Almost same with XVII and XVIII, two roles of cavalry - scouting (+sometimes little hit and run) and covering flanks of infantry+making decisive hit on already beaten-up formations. Albeit there are some exceptions like Polish-Lithuanian army in XVII century, which was based on cavalry, and if Im correct Turkey. So if my deeper research prove it, maybe for more colourful gameplay we should at least try to implement and balance that.

PS. I checked new mod pack - asking just in case - you stil working on grenadiers md's, because when I tried them they do lot of wierd things:)
Also looked again on english diplo. Maybe if we work on some tones/contrasts bigger buildings wont be looking bad? Geez, there is thousand of things to try but we only have 24 hours/day...

PS2. One last question - do you think its possible to calculate squad shot power/melee by average of every single units in squad? Just asking, in Imperia there is a option of mixing mercenary soldiers in one squad, so if you for example mix 100 soldiers having 100 shot power with 20 having 140 shot power, squad shot power should be 107. Imperia dont have that - squad have fixed strength of infantry type choosen in officer menu, so if you choose weakest, and you have only few weakest units in formation and rest is composed of stronger ones, whole formation have stats of those weak units. Or better - even if its no be graphically visible on interfeace, do you know does the engine would recognise which unit have which shot power (better units - more kills), or defence points (shielded units will last longer)? It could be superb feature...

Seeya.


Message edited by Bzik - Thursday, 12/January/2012, 2:23 PM
 
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