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Questions, suggestions, remarks and wishes to C2 BfE
NowyDate: Wednesday, 02/June/2010, 1:21 AM | Message # 71
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Cichor it's fine that you put your opinion, but excuse me, I think that you have misunderstood my points.
I pointed that C1, AC and even C2 many times had wrong choiced uniforms colors. Faction/nation colors it is not only question about coats, but uniforms had some facings and other small things. In these games many times lapels, colars, cuffs, pompons, plumes etc. change their colors together with faction/nation color and that is bad sometime.

During Napoleonic era uniforms and their facing colors were standarised, and I pointed this question earlier in this thread. If you like, you can read abot it.

You misunderstood me also in question about pontoon and wooden bridges, draft and boats. These bridges were very important even on battlefields, which I pointed earlier and put some examples too. These bridges carried on four weel wagons should be in the game. There are many rivers and streams in C2 where it can be usable for water crossing. Few wooden and pontoon bridges could even change few stone bridges in the game. Can these bridges be destroyable as national obiects, I do not know. Drafts and boats can be create on waterside without dockyards I think.

If I remember well in AoE II is one war machine carried on wagons, why in C2 can not be pontoon or wooden bridge carried on wagons?

 
CichorDate: Wednesday, 02/June/2010, 8:49 PM | Message # 72
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Quote (Nowy)
Cichor it's fine that you put your opinion, but excuse me, I think that you have misunderstood my points.

I'm sure I understanded your words.

Quote (Nowy)
I pointed that C1, AC and even C2 many times had wrong choiced uniforms colors. Faction/nation colors it is not only question about coats, but uniforms had some facings and other small things. In these games many times lapels, colars, cuffs, pompons, plumes etc. change their colors together with faction/nation color and that is bad sometime.

Only one way - reserve each colour for each nation, if only game you can change game engine. For example green for Russian etc.

Quote (Nowy)
During Napoleonic era uniforms and their facing colors were standarised, and I pointed this question earlier in this thread. If you like, you can read abot it.

I knew it before but not well (I mean I not know well details).

Quote (Nowy)
You misunderstood me also in question about pontoon and wooden bridges, draft and boats. These bridges were very important even on battlefields, which I pointed earlier and put some examples too. These bridges carried on four weel wagons should be in the game. There are many rivers and streams in C2 where it can be usable for water crossing.

I try to explain you in my last post why programmers forget about it and not including any pontoon etc. That is all. And my own words from last post, again:

Quote (Cichor)
I'm afraid engine of game is not intendent for building bridges (like in Sudden Strike series).

Quote (Nowy)

Few wooden and pontoon bridges could even change few stone bridges in the game. Can these bridges be destroyable as national obiects, I do not know.

It would be good solution. Few brigdes on map with only 1 HP [but without possibles to complete destroy]. And then anyone can repair bridge and cross the river. Nice idea. ;]

Quote (Nowy)
If I remember well in AoE II is one war machine carried on wagons ....

If I good remember you mean trebuchet [I not sure it is correct English word]. That siege machine was carried on one wagoon. In AoE2 you can mount and dismount machine, without change engine of game it would be impossible to add this possibles to C2.

Quote (Nowy)
why in C2 can not be pontoon or wooden bridge carried on wagons?

What about engine of game? For you it should be easy to do it? But if you want to add bridges building by sappers then you should change part of game engine responsible for terrain.
Another issue: wagon with bridge arrived at river. And what then? wagon disappeared and appeared bridge or what?

I well remember your own words about it that changes should do programmers which create game - profesionalls.

Quote (Nowy)
Cichor it's fine that you put your opinion

That were my last words in this topic for a long time :P


I apologize for my english.



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NowyDate: Wednesday, 02/March/2011, 10:40 AM | Message # 73
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Quote ("Cichor")
Only one way - reserve each colour for each nation, if only game you can change game engine. For example green for Russian etc.

I do not think that it solve this problem. If you reserve each colour for each nation you will can see some silly things, because few nations had near the same uniforms basic colors at that period e.g. Polish and French dark blue infantry, Austrian and few Rhine white units, and Spanish had white units too. What is more uniforms colors were designed not only for nations, but also for units types e.g. French Dragons, Lancers and Chasseurs wore dark green uniforms, while French Cuirassiers, Uhlans and few other units wore dark blue, and do not forget about colorful Hussars. Next problem it is fascing colors which in many cases change together with national colors in the game. This colors were also standarised and I pointed it earlier. I can do it again in short way e.g. French, Polish and few other grenadiers used red facing colors for plumes, epaulets etc, their Voltigeurs used yellow and green facings colors. Austrian, British, Prussian, Russian and Spanish also had their color codes for their units types at Napoleonic era. It were standarised colors and it did not changed in pink or purple what we can see in the game.

I think that Napoleonic national uniforms were enought different with cut, colors, headwears and few other things that it do not need change right historical colors in the game. If I remember Gex in his mod HEW can handel this things better than it is in C2. Of course he also made some mistakes there, but he try do it well. Think that good modders can improve this things in C2.

Quote ("Cichor")
If I good remember you mean trebuchet [I not sure it is correct English word]. That siege machine was carried on one wagoon. In AoE2 you can mount and dismount machine, without change engine of game it would be impossible to add this possibles to C2.

Yes, I mentioned this war machine, but only as example where something can be transported on wagons and then can be deployed on battlefield.
In C2 we can only attach guns with limbers but it sometime do not working well. Gex in his mod try solve this poblem in another way, but I have got mixed feelings there.

Hope that somebody can solve these transport and deployment problems for atrillery guns and even for pontoon or wooden bridges in C2 BFE.

Quote ("Cichor")
What about engine of game? For you it should be easy to do it? But if you want to add bridges building by sappers then you should change part of game engine responsible for terrain.
Another issue: wagon with bridge arrived at river. And what then? wagon disappeared and appeared bridge or what?

I well remember your own words about it that changes should do programmers which create game - profesionalls.

Yes I said in the beginning that professionals should do many improvments for this game. My wishes there are big and that is why I made many suggestions and remarks there. Think that fans can discuse what they want to have in the game and modders or developers could/should take it into acount and make improvments, mods or even next addon for this game. I like this game, but it have many mistakes which can spoil fun sometime.

I am interesting in historical warfare accuracy, well-matched units and their uniforms, good geographical map conditions and good playability in C2 BFE. Hope that EbelAngel or another modders can make good mods which will can working under these mentioned in this thread conditions. I know it is hard and long time work, nevetheless many things are doable there. What a pitty that I can not do it myself and GSC developers did not nothing new for this interesting game yet.

Regards
Nowy

Added (07/July/2010, 12:01 PM)
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Global Europe map

When I look at Europe map in C2 Battle for Europe Campaign I have got mixed feelings. It looks not bad, but it could/should looks better. This map should include more accurate historical and geographical locations. Mean that it should include proper locations for towns, rivers, mountains and sectors territories. These things in many cases were not properly prepared there. Specially Central and Eastern Europe have many mistakes e.g. all Austrian, Polish, Prussian, Rhine and Russian sectors have wrong matched territories and their border lines. Other sectors also have some mistakes and few provincial capitals were not well-matched too. What is more some new sectors and nations (factions) are necessary in the game. Therefore I have got a question can somebody make new or redraw this existing global map and implement it into Battle for Europe Campaign?

Added (02/March/2011, 10:40 Am)
---------------------------------------------
I am backing again to this old thread because still have got some ideas for improvements in C2 and it could be interesting for these which will try develop them. I think that some my ideas which I put for HEW mod can be used for C2 BfE too.
Here you can read
http://cossacksworld.ucoz.co.uk/forum/40-241-1

Nowy

PS
It's strange thing. This thread have got so many replies and more than one thousand views. Nevertheless discussion stopped there and nobody want to disscuse more and make new questions, suggestions or remarks to C2 BfE. Do people like read only and do not want makes any remarks there?

Message edited by Nowy - Friday, 11/March/2011, 10:17 AM
 
aiidiiDate: Tuesday, 12/April/2011, 8:47 PM | Message # 74
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What I'd like to see is artillery limber fix so that cannons and the horses pulling them can connect more easily; disband unit button should be modified so it doesn't disband on first click, but maybe CTRL+click; another button should be introduced to reinforce first company line from men of the second and third line, so the soldiers just step forward and the first line is constantly at full strength (thus sacrificing the third line. This would be useful during combat away from friendly villages and if you can't bring reinforcements from home base); Square formation should be able to move (this could be modified to move at a little slower speed than in line formation); square formation should be made able to fire in sections (1st section being the outer line of men, 2nd the middle and 3rd the inner); introducing generals in skirmish maps that would be built at academy (he would have special abilities like rallying panicked troops around him, he would increase moral of nearby troops).

Cheers
aiidii


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NowyDate: Wednesday, 13/April/2011, 10:52 AM | Message # 75
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Hi aiidii it is nice that you put your remarks here.
Mainly I can agree with you. Artillery limber fix is very wellcome in C2. However I do not uderstand what you mean there
Quote (aiidii)
disband unit button should be modified so it doesn't disband on first click, but maybe CTRL+click;

Interesting idea you put for lines reinrocement, and it could be fine, at last it was common order - fill the 1st and 2nd line with 3rd line at that period.
Therefore it could be automated or could be intoduced that next new button.

I got mixed feelings about movable squares. This were mainly static formations against cavalry and fights in encirclement. Historical square could move, but it was hard and very dangerous, and could be done very slowly. From my point of view it could be still static, but should be little bit bigger sized. Now it looks too small and very thight formation. Normally it was thigt formations, but every one man needs some place to stand and defend their position.

I agree that squars should be made able to fire in sections, however against cavalry charge better choice was one good timed and accurate volley.

Introducing Generals and their Adjutants created in Acadey building was my old idea too. I and many others players strongly want to see and use them on battlefields in every mode even in Battle for Europe Campaign. What is more I still got some ideas how they could acted there.

Regards

Nowy

Message edited by Nowy - Wednesday, 13/April/2011, 10:55 AM
 
aiidiiDate: Wednesday, 13/April/2011, 11:13 AM | Message # 76
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Quote (Nowy)
However I do not uderstand what you mean there
Quote (aiidii)
disband unit button should be modified so it doesn't disband on first click, but maybe CTRL+click;

That red button bellow firing buttons should be modified to only work if you hold CTRL.

I agree with you on square size. Historicaly, artillery and cavalry used to hide inside them to reload, regroup and fire at the enemy. With current size one can only place one artillery piece inside. And to avoid friendly fire it is safest to use howitzer for that. It would look weird ingame if the square was made big enough for cavalry to hide inside though.

And as many people have said before me, I would also like to be able to build whole companies and squadrons at once. The time limit to build one must stay the same as it is done now. But this should be an option, so when playing the game you could build whole formations at once or also just enough men to reinforce depleted ones.

Cheers
aiidii


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NowyDate: Wednesday, 13/April/2011, 11:58 AM | Message # 77
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Quote (aiidii)
That red button bellow firing buttons should be modified to only work if you hold CTRL.

Hm, I still do not uderstand what for?

Quote (aiidii)
It would look weird ingame if the square was made big enough for cavalry to hide inside though.

I do not think so that it could be possible to hide cavalry inside only the one infantry square formations. Historically in such case was formed bigger square made with few infantry formations stayed in lines and this is doable now in C2 too.
From my point of view individual squares should be bigger in size mainly for better look and to hide one or two atrillery guns, Generals and their Adjutants.

Cavalry formations, in the game 45 men, are big and I can not call them as squadrons. Historicaly squadrons include 80-250 men and even we include 1:10 down scale in the game, it still mean that cavalry squadron in average could have c.a. 16 men. I suggested earlier to introduce in C2 smaller cavalry formations - 15 or 20 men as cavalry squadrons and bigger up to 60-80 men as cavalry regiments, which include four squadrons.

As I know Gex in his HEW mod made 20 men cavalry squadrons and there also exist 45 men bigger cavalry formations and it both looks and works quite well. It could be introduced in C2 too.

Quote (aiidii)
And as many people have said before me, I would also like to be able to build whole companies and squadrons at once.

Interesting idea, and I thought the same in tha past, but we must remenber that all this formations in C2 optionaly can include or not officers staffs.

Regards
Nowy

 
aiidiiDate: Wednesday, 13/April/2011, 8:37 PM | Message # 78
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Quote (Nowy)
As I know Gex in his HEW mod made 20 men cavalry squadrons and there also exist 45 men bigger cavalry formations and it both looks and works quite well. It could be introduced in C2 too.

What function would 20 cavalry squadron perform? One well aimed volley and there would be no more cavalry.


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NowyDate: Wednesday, 31/August/2011, 11:10 AM | Message # 79
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Quote (aiidii)
What function would 20 cavalry squadron perform? One well aimed volley and there would be no more cavalry.

It not so easy catch fast cavalry if they are not suicides.
What is more I postulated to decrease also casualties ratios inflicted with fire arms which were not so accurate at that period.

I put some explanation in that matter in this thread earlier. If you woud like you can read it.
I can make again some points about this needed smaller cavalry squadron formation in the game.

Smaller cavalry squadrons take the opportunity to:
+ create more and faster cavalry formations, even in early stage of game play
+ do many actions as like reconnaissance, catch strategic points, screen army advance, cover terrain
+ support and defend not formed soldiers, peasants, policemen, buildings, bigger formations, artillery
+ stop penetration spamed enemy sappers, jagers, spies, light cavalry
+ pursuit and kill flying enemy soldiers, artillery crew, peasants, priest etc.

These small cavalry squadrons will be enough to do many interesting things, however in open battle they can not withstand against bigger formations.
Therefore cavalry should have form also bigger cavalry regiments needed in battles. This cavalry regiment in the game still could include 45 men.

Added (11/August/2011, 5:34 PM)
---------------------------------------------
This thread have so many views that I would like to get back there. What is more I still have some questions, suggestions, ideas and remarks to C2.

Game timeline could be from 1795 to 1815.

The game timeline could be increased from 1795 to 1815. During these twenty years Napoleon became General, then First Consul and Emperor. He quickly built his empire, but was defeated. Player also could start this campaign as Brigadier General, then will be promote to Divisional General, General Corps Commander or Marshal and will can rose to position of Supreme Commander, President or Monarch.

Next five sectors in Cossacks 2 Battle for Europe Campaign.

I think that it could be fine add next five sectors in Battle for Europe Campaign, which I did not mention on my wish list yet.

Previously I proposed 55 land sectors and 5 sea sectors needed in this campaign, but there could be next questions, suggestions about next sectors which could included few areas, where some actions went on at that period. Developers could take into account that during Napoleonic Wars were several small and buffer states, a specially in Germany and Italy which did not garrisoned any serious armies in the beginning. However there were many reorganizations, treaty adjustments and these territories changed their dependence to different states sometimes even few times. There were many occupations, many diplomatic questions, few revolts, uprisings and other engagements which could influenced on Battle for Europe Campaign. Therefore it could be fine implement into the game next four special sectors – Hamburg, Innsbruck, Trieste and Venice which could represent such cases.

In the game also could be more Ottomans sectors, because they had vast domains in south east of Europe where lived many nations. There went on many actions at that period. Turkey waged wars with France 1798-1801, with Russia 1806-1812 and with Britain 1807-1809. All they made several military actions as like naval expedition to the Ionian Islands, Russian occupied Wallachia and Moldavia, then they laid few sieges and battled Turks in north Bulgaria and Dobruja. Turkey successfully defended Dardanelles Straits against British and Russian fleet. In meantime Serbs upraised in 1804-1815. Janissaries also revolted few times and there were two sultans assassinations. Therefore in the game could be added next one Sofia (Bulgaria and Dobruja) sector.

This way in Battle for Europe Campaign could be added next five sectors:

Hamburg (North Germany)
Innsbruck (Tyrol, Salzburg and Inn Quarter)
Trieste (Illyrian provinces)
Venice (Venetia and Trent)
Sofia (Bulgaria and Dobruja)


All together there will be in the game 50 land sectors for playable nations, 10 land sectors, neutral in the beginning of this campaign and 5 sea sectors for naval battles. All these sectors will gives opportunities to test many optional events which could be played in this campaign. Historical game play could be more accurate there too.

Added (19/August/2011, 11:59 Am)
---------------------------------------------
Next suggestions to improvements in C2 BfE.

Policemen villages defenders

All we know how foolish are these dark blue policemen in black top-hats in the game. They often acted stupidly, go under enemy fire and die like idiots which can not predict what will happen when they will approach to enemy formation in shorter range. It is quite foolish when they openly try attack on much bigger enemy formation.

These policemen should operate in more realistic style and should guard and actively defend villages when comes enemy skirmishers, sappers, priests, scouts or any smaller foes units. If bigger enemy formation will come, guarding policemen should try hide somewhere behind buildings or trees and bushes, make ambush, wait and fire when enemy will in advance. If it will be unsuccessful and enemy will still advance, then policemen should try retreat to nearest allied village or could surrender.

If policemen will be in accompany with any national formations then all they should defend this village until national forces will be there and will can fight. Policemen normally should be more cautious and do not go stupidly under enemy fire.

In the game also should be implemented smaller policemen formations, each 15 men, because there were not so many policemen which could guarded villages at that period. These new smaller formations, where policemen operate in two ranks, could better represent company size formations. Sometime there could be even two smaller policemen formation, each 15 men, instead this existing 30 men formation. This way they can be more effective and can guarding at once in two different directions.

Nevertheless it was rare case when real policemen can withstand against soldiers formation. Therefore smaller policemen formations will better represent such cases, because they will be weaken than 30 policemen formations and basic soldiers formations.

EDIT:
Policemen reinforcement bug which happen sometime in late stage of gameplay should be improved too.

Added (31/August/2011, 11:10 Am)
--------------------------------------------
Formation strength

I calculated hypothetical order of battle needed in the game and this show some problems. C2 game have too small units limitation and too small maps which both do not allow to place more soldiers.

However there should be more artillery cannons and few different types of wagons, should be artillery formations, should be Generals, Chiefs and their Adjutants, and all these extort downsizing for formation strength.

I think that basic formation could include:
- infantry battalion c.a. 80 or 100 men,
- cavalry squadron 20 men, but in cavalry regiment could be only 40 men,
- Cossacks sotnia 10 men and Cossacks regiment 40 men,
- irregular cavalry small formations 10 men and bigger formation 40 men
- foot companies for skirmishers and sappers 12 or 15 men
- Spanish militia battalion 60 men
- Spanish Guerilla bands 15 men
- Egyptian Tuareg and other irregular eastern troops 30 men

Artillery and horse train wagons need new strength and organization in the game.

There could be create:
- artillery section which include 2 the same type artillery guns and limbers for regimental and sige foot artillery
- artillery foot and horse battery which include 3 cannons, 1 howitzer and 4 limbers, plus optionally officer and drummer or trumpeter
- artillery train which could include 4 four wheel wagons as ammunition caissons
- military equipage train could include 2 baggage wagons
- engineer train with 2 pontoon or wooden bridges four wheel carriages

More than 2 artillery batteries optionally could be "commanded" by Chief of Artillery in rank of General.
Engineers ordered to build or destroy permanent fortifications as like forts, bastions and fortreses could be optionally "commanded" by Chief of Enginer
in rank of General. They also could supervise other engineers operations too.

Commanders, Chiefs and Adjutants.

I proposed implement into the game Generals which can commanded groups of formations.
They could better represent commanding staff and better show Napoleonic armies organization.
There were many Generals and their Adjutants presented on battlefields at that period and they should be presented in the game too.

These mounted Marshals, Generals and their Adjutant officers could be created in Academy and then appointed to adequate formations and operations. They could be ranked in few levels and there could be crated:

*****..- 6 stars, diamonds or other insignia for Supreme Commander (Monarch)...= 1 man
****...- 4 stars, diamonds or other insignia for Commander in Chief of the Army...= 1 man
***.....- 3 stars, diamonds or other insignia for Army Corps Commanders..............= 4 men
**.......- 2 stars, diamonds or other insignia for Division Generals..........................= 15 men
*.........- 1 star, diamond or other insignia for Brigade Generals.............................= 20 men
...........- no special insignia for Adjutant officers...................................................= 70 men

They could represent such persons as like:

Supreme commander it could be Monarch
Headquarters suite Generals assigned to supreme commander
Commander in Chief of the Army in rank of General or Marshal
Chief of Staff of the Army in rank equal to General of Division
Chief of Artillery of the Army in rank equal to General of Division
Chief of Engineer of the Army in rank equal to General of Division
Military Inteligence or Quartermasster or Wagon master General
Armies Wings or Reserve Cavalry Commanders in rank of General or Marshal
Army Corps Commanders in rank of General or Marshal
Chiefs of Staff of the Corps in rank equal to General of Brigade
Chief of Artillery of the Corps in rank equal to General of Division
Chief of Engineer of the Corps in rank equal to General of Brigade
Cavalry Corps Commander in rank of General of Division
Infantry or Cavalry Division Commanders
Infantry or Cavalry Brigade Commanders
Adjutants officers assigned to every one General

They could be present on every map as commanding staffs where:

Supreme Commander or Monarch could be in accompany with
1 Headquarter suite General in rank equal to Division General
1 Headquarter suite General in rank equal to Brigade General
3 Adjutants officers assigned to headquarter suite Generals
20 men in escorting cavalry squadron placed near this commanding staff

Commander in Chief of the Army could be in accompany with 4 Adjutants officers
Each Army Corps Commander could be presented together with 3 Adjutants officers
Each Cavalry Corps and each General equal to Division Commander could be with 2 Adjutants
Each General equal to Brigade General could be with 1 Adjutant.

This way players will can crate more complex armies and play more interesting games.

Is it so hard implement such armies organization and commanding structure in C2?


Message edited by Nowy - Friday, 02/September/2011, 12:16 PM
 
aiidiiDate: Tuesday, 22/November/2011, 1:24 PM | Message # 80
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What would all these commanders do? It's like...too much of them. A maximum of two generals with their adjutants and some cavalry for protection (15~20 men) should be enough. These two command formations would provide aditional morale to nearby troops (they could also influence accuracy of shots).

Also priests should be replaced with a medical unit which could be trained at the academy. This unit could consist of a medical wagon pulled by 4 horses and 2 surgeons/medics. Just like the priests this unit would heal formations in its range (and possibly also provide aditional morale).

Sappers should be able to construct boats big enough for one infantry company or two cavalry squadrons. Sappers should also be capable of constructing earthworks for artillery positions like they exist in the editor. But the player should be made capable of directing the length and direction of the earthworks. With enough material, a player could theoreticaly construct a sort of limes. These earthworks should be made destructable either by artillery or grenades.

Some other stuff should be improved aswell. Namely, the British should have the option to create pipers for their highlander units. All cavalry should have an officer and a trumpeteer added, not just a flag bearer (again for improved morale).

Another formation type should be introduced. The L shaped formation. It would provide better defense on the flanks. Half of the infantry formation would simply move to a 90° angle. This could also mean that two companies instead of four could create a square.

Cheers
aiidii


I drink, therefore I am.

Message edited by aiidii - Tuesday, 22/November/2011, 1:25 PM
 
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